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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ yes,  having immersed myself in contract law for the last several years, it has come to light that when you sign up for selling your art to one of the major industries (film, music etc) you are basically owned and serve as an actor on the stage for the global elite's agendas. Even though i love all these styles of music, it has also become apparent that such shifts in popular music trends are very much orchestrated for the effect of creating divisions in society and the world at large therefore anybody who falls into this trap is really just serving their masters behind the scenes. Sounds crazy but too many have left the various industries and explained these things in great detail. In the case of glam metal, some of those bands really were bad. There is a time and place where something needs to change and the 1991 timeline was one of those times. On the bright side with grunge came the all things alternative era as well as prog revival. As i see it grunge was the last hurrah for the traditional music industry before the decentralized platform changed it all forever. It will take a while but eventually a new more just and freer music industry will evolve into something that serves the artist and fans and not just the profits of the industry. In the meantime, indie music is king!

very interesting  Thumbs Up
But I might not be that optimistic about the future development, and I doubt, it'll go that way unless some strong forces work for it.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

I always found it ironic that punk came along when there was an old school Labour left-wing government in power in the UK. If they'd left it a few more years they might have struggled to form bands as Maggie Thatcher would have had them on job creation schemes! 

I don't think, it was accidental that the punk rebellion came close after the '60s counterculture, even the early '80s had their squatter movement where, I think, Punk was quite popular too. 
But I'm not sure how much true left-wing there was in the Labour government, even I can tell that the Danish Socialdemokratic government got some more left-oriented in the '70s when the true left-wing got stronger after the '60s counterculture.

Probably the last left wing government in the UK was under Wilson and Callahan in the 70's. After that it's been right wing/centre politics all the way, and the next (inevitable) Labour government will be centre based under Sir Keir Starmer.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

I always found it ironic that punk came along when there was an old school Labour left-wing government in power in the UK. If they'd left it a few more years they might have struggled to form bands as Maggie Thatcher would have had them on job creation schemes! 

I don't think, it was accidental that the punk rebellion came close after the '60s counterculture, even the early '80s had their squatter movement where, I think, Punk was quite popular too. 
But I'm not sure how much true left-wing there was in the Labour government, even I can tell that the Danish Socialdemokratic government got some more left-oriented in the '70s when the true left-wing got stronger after the '60s counterculture.


Edited by David_D - December 14 2023 at 08:59
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Yeah, it's a pretty creative one, even I might find it more vulgar than funny. 

And definitely not as funny as Glam Metal. Big smile

what's so funny about glam metal in your opinion? 
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Originally posted by Octopus II Octopus II wrote:

Never Mind The Pistols Heres my Bollocks funny PUNK t-shirt 8955 | eBay
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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prefer lifting our pen
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Yeah, it's a pretty creative one, even I might find it more vulgar than funny. 

And definitely not as funny as Glam Metal. Big smile
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David_D View Drop Down
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Yeah, it's a pretty creative one, even I might find it more vulgar than funny. 
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Originally posted by Octopus II Octopus II wrote:

Never Mind The Pistols Heres my Bollocks funny PUNK t-shirt 8955 | eBay
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Octopus II View Drop Down
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Never Mind The Pistols Heres my Bollocks funny PUNK t-shirt 8955 | eBay
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David_D View Drop Down
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Some more of Never Mind the Bollocks... and the time:
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

I always found it ironic that punk came along when there was an old school Labour left-wing government in power in the UK. If they'd left it a few more years they might have struggled to form bands as Maggie Thatcher would have had them on job creation schemes! 

I don't think, it was accidental that the punk rebellion came close after the '60s counterculture, even the early '80s had their squatter movement where, I think, Punk was quite popular too. 
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

My favourite Pistols track was Silly Thing, released after Lydon and Vicious had gone, which was more of a catchy hard rock song than punk. The Stranglers were the only "punk" band I really got into and bought albums by. Prog music was new to me at the time even though the bands had been around for a long time, and I found it exciting and interesting.

Being 15 in the summer of 1977 punk should have been "my music" but it didn't speak to me at all really. There was certainly plenty of energy and aggression but I thought it was musically not very interesting, nihilistic and aesthetically ugly. I wanted to be Keith Emerson or Jimmy Page, not the spotty green-haired herbert Johnny Rotten! Most of the prog musicians were pushing or past 30 by 1977 and a new generation had come along so it was time for one of the periodic resets. The punks couldn't say they were better musicians than the old guard so their USP was that they were more relevant and "street".

I always found it ironic that punk came along when there was an old school Labour left-wing government in power in the UK. If they'd left it a few more years they might have struggled to form bands as Maggie Thatcher would have had them on job creation schemes! In some ways I think punk was a precursor of Thatcherism with both attempting to blow away what was perceived as a dusty decaying old Britain, one from a youth/musical standpoint and the other in terms of politics and economics.

Punk died a fairly rapid death and morphed into new wave which was more arty and musically adventurous. I remember seeing Magazine on the Old Grey Whistle Test and thinking they sounded like a prog band under heavy sedation.

Some very interesting stuff in there and I can relate.

However I never felt the same about the so called 'New Wave' scene. The original punk bands were the best. The Damned, The Stranglers (although barely a punk band) The Clash, Siouxsie and The Banshees, Pistols and maybe The Jam. They had the energy and I liked it. Never loved it though and as you say it had nowhere to go. I didn't listen to much prog other than ELP at the time. Genesis sounded bland while Floyd were boring and Yes were just strange. I didn't find a whole lot to sink my teeth into at the time. I think by the 80's I was independent enough just to listen to whatever I fancied and gravitated to Kate Bush, Mike Oldfield Tangerine Dream, Vangelis, Al Stewart and actually liked a lot of 'New Age'. The rock scene mostly passed me by. I liked Iron Maiden and could see a point to them but not a lot else around tickled my fancy. U2 were just horrid to my ears and I couldn't stand the plastic production of so much music that was being pumped out. Roll on the 90's!
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

^ Maybe you had in mind one of the five Glam Metal bands below who all appear to be having a bad hair metal day. Tongue



First of all glam metal wasn't really metal at all but rather a heavier version of 70s glam rock therefore it's pretty much now accepted as a form of hard rock.

I agree with Poison and Nelson as some of the worst the era had to offer but Winger had musical creds and Great White had a few catchy tunes albeit too much in the Led Zep worship camp. Slaughter was simply generic but listenable. Stryper had a gimmick and a cool fashion statement but was kind of cheesy too.

Bands that really DID suck for the most part IMHO from the glam metal years are:

Cats In Boots
Enuff Z-Nuff
Faster Pussycat
Warrant
Dirty Looks

Bands that i love that are included in the glam metal camp are:

W.A.S.P.
Dokken
Twisted Sister
Ratt
Cinderella
Def Leppard
Motley Crue
McAuley Shenker Group
EZO
Extreme
Skid Row
Guns N Roses

There were also many bands that had a great song or two but rather dull generic albums:
Britny Fox
Kix
Helix
KISS
Lita Ford
Autograph
Quiet Riot
Vandenberg
Winger
White Lion
Hurricane
Dangerous Toys

As far as appearances, they all looked ridiculous. I hate the glam metal look. I only judge by musical output.







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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:


Why are you agreeing when it's completely wrong? First of all punk didn't kill prog. Punk started well before the Sex Pistols, it just wasn't called punk yet. MC5, New York Dolls and The Stooges were the quintessential early punk bands that captured the imagination of those who wanted a more rebellious style in their rock. Punk did not die after three years, au contraire it simply splintered off into myriad sub-genres ranging from post-punk and new wave to art punk, Gothic rock and yes even progressive punk! Both punk and prog are still going strong so why is it considered a competition nearly 50 years on? Sure the initial reaction was to emphasize on simpler songs that highlighted social issues but prog's decline was a result of burnout and the increased interest in disco, electronica and good old fashioned pop music. Prog really didn't die out at all. Some of the best prog came out around 1977 and after and likewise some of the best best punk came out in the 1980s. People who make these general claims don't seem to have a grasp on the deeper history that played out. Keep in mind that popularity in music has a lot to do with record companies manipulating the public's perceptions and not the true zeitgeist of any given era.


Thank You.Clap

+/-  my take on things as well. Smile
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ yes,  having immersed myself in contract law for the last several years, it has come to light that when you sign up for selling your art to one of the major industries (film, music etc) you are basically owned and serve as an actor on the stage for the global elite's agendas. Even though i love all these styles of music, it has also become apparent that such shifts in popular music trends are very much orchestrated for the effect of creating divisions in society and the world at large therefore anybody who falls into this trap is really just serving their masters behind the scenes. Sounds crazy but too many have left the various industries and explained these things in great detail. In the case of glam metal, some of those bands really were bad. There is a time and place where something needs to change and the 1991 timeline was one of those times. On the bright side with grunge came the all things alternative era as well as prog revival. As i see it grunge was the last hurrah for the traditional music industry before the decentralized platform changed it all forever. It will take a while but eventually a new more just and freer music industry will evolve into something that serves the artist and fans and not just the profits of the industry. In the meantime, indie music is king!

very interesting  Thumbs Up
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I was talking about undeserved backlash and mockery. 

Yes, there were glam bands that were awful (but so were awful alternative bands in the 90s as well), that scene would have imploded sooner or later anyway, big labels milked that scene too death (which they will do the same with grunge and alternative a few years later). 

A lot of bands changed sound in their attempt to stay relevant, attract a new audience, follow trends try to stay "fresh". The results were mixed (to put it gently). 

That was my point exactly! The backlash WAS deserved because those bands looked ridiculous in comparison to the extreme metal upgrade that they didn't even notice. Glam metal bands were puppets of the music industry and were blindsided because they were clueless to the developments around them. They didn't attract new audiences because the rest of the world moved on and they were stuck in 1985!

They didn't attract an audience because they used to play something different and went with the grungy alternative sound, which a lot of people found rather ridiculous. 
Even Kiss did a grunge album, which was initially shelved but in the end released, maybe, maybe it would make some money. 

For example Winger and Cinderella released really good albums in the 90s ('93-'94), both went unnoticed, they are getting some respect these days. And they were not the only ones. 



Edited by Cristi - December 12 2023 at 11:13
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I like two of the bands in the video above. It's just someone's opinion. 
If I made such a list, it would look different and someone would say some bands in there are not so bad. LOL
Twisted Sister would make my list of the five worst Hair Metal bands of all time. They're so bad that they're almost good. Tongue



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 12 2023 at 10:52
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I like two of the bands in the video above. It's just someone's opinion. 
If I made such a list, it would look different and someone would say some bands in there are not so bad. LOL
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^ Maybe you had in mind one of the five Glam Metal bands below who all appear to be having a bad hair metal day. Tongue
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

 In the case of glam metal, some of those bands really were bad. There is a time and place where something needs to change and the 1991 timeline was one of those times. On the bright side with grunge came the all things alternative era as well as prog revival. As i see it grunge was the last hurrah for the traditional music industry before the decentralized platform changed it all forever.  

You are right. But the mocking of the '80s glam metal was often not deserved. Some bands were dropped by labels, some bands releasing music did not get any help with promotion, add the mockery from the music media, it must have been hard for quite a few musicians. It was not just glam that fell on hard times, but metal in general (and that's just ignorance if you ask me). Many bands did not know what to do next after 1991-92, they either became less heavy (and at times more commercial) or followed the trends of the times, often with not good results. 

I disagree with that. One of the major reasons glam metal fell by the wayside was that the more extreme thrash, death and black metal bands were gaining popularity in the underground. While Poison and Bon Jovi were ruling the pop charts, Metallica, Megadeth and Anthrax were selling lots of albums and bringing metal into a more credible realm. Glam metal attracted the sell outs who simply played the game instead of focusing on inventive music. It became a cliche of itself. By 1991 extreme metal had already splintered into many styles of subgenres. The pace of musical evolution has quickened in the last few decades and artists that fail to keep up things will get swept by the wayside. Just the way it works. Glam metal was just too shallow with more philosophical bands growing in number. In some ways grunge was simply the easy listening section of the extreme metal universe that grew unnoticed by the masses into the juggernaut that it is today.

I was talking about undeserved backlash and mockery. 

Yes, there were glam bands that were awful (but so were awful alternative bands in the 90s as well), that scene would have imploded sooner or later anyway, big labels milked that scene too death (which they will do the same with grunge and alternative a few years later). 

A lot of bands changed sound in their attempt to stay relevant, attract a new audience, follow trends try to stay "fresh". The results were mixed (to put it gently). 

That was my point exactly! The backlash WAS deserved because those bands looked ridiculous in comparison to the extreme metal upgrade that they didn't even notice. Glam metal bands were puppets of the music industry and were blindsided because they were clueless to the developments around them. They didn't attract new audiences because the rest of the world moved on and they were stuck in 1985!


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