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A to Z of Classic German Prog

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David_D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2023 at 13:30

Something else, Paul, it seems to me like you could know more about the high spirit and ambitions of the Krautrock movement, 
even you might not like it so much from the political point of view.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2023 at 15:12

While I'm curious about what the German Krautrockers were thinking about the British Progressive Rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2023 at 16:25
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


While I'm curious about what the German Krautrockers were thinking about the British Progressive Rock.

Hi,

They weren't. See the special, so you get a better idea. Even Renate states that for them it was more about "classical music" than anything else. Many of those folks explain what the creativity of "krautrock" was all about, very clearly. A new time, a new place ... and new music!

Sadly, it wasn't just a music scene. What happened in "krautrock" was also visible in film, theater and literature, and both Fassbender and Herzog are even mentioned, but Wenders should as well. But progressive music folks don't believe in the arts to appreciate what else was happening. Check out the beginning of the "my friend" film by Herzog, and you can see Klaus Kinski ad libbing in front of an audience. That's not film! It's an "attitude" that helped create what became known as "krautrock" in more than one area of the arts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2023 at 16:46
I tend to agree with Pedro that the German scene was completely separate from what was going on in the UK, they had their own zeitgeist and lived by their own rules. They were all the better for it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2023 at 16:59
^^^Some German bands were not separate from the UK scene, like Triumvirat and The Pink Mice, who were obviously enamoured with "classical music" and inspired by the Nice and ELP, and were German, but not krautrock. Triumvirat were a hit right off with the German rock fans, but the music "establishment" were indifferent and negative until the group hit the top 40 in the USA, and then Triumvirat  were showered with offers of interviews, etc. 
                  


Edited by presdoug - November 23 2023 at 17:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2023 at 07:38
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

The only albums I haven't listened to in your Krautrock playlist .....
Anyway, my collection of classic German progressive music is not just Krautrock but also including some Prog Rock, Progressive Electronic and a single album of Prog Folk (Hölderlins Traum). Wink

But to be fair, my list could be considered as good as only Krautrock.  Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2023 at 08:43
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I tend to agree with Pedro that the German scene was completely separate from what was going on in the UK, they had their own zeitgeist and lived by their own rules. They were all the better for it.  

A lot of early Pink Floyd influence can be heard in much early German prog. Also for sure they didn't only know the Beatles, also they paid attention. "Separation" can always only go so far in music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2023 at 12:34
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

A lot of early Pink Floyd influence can be heard in much early German prog. Also for sure they didn't only know the Beatles, also they paid attention. "Separation" can always only go so far in music.

I'm quite sure that the Krautrockers knew not so little of the British Prog Rock, so they must have been thinking something about it.



Edited by David_D - November 24 2023 at 13:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2023 at 15:42
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


While I'm curious about what the German Krautrockers were thinking about the British Progressive Rock.

You may be interested to know there are fifteen British Krautrock bands listed on PA, including Amon Duul, and also The Utopia Strong featuring snooker player and Mick Hucknall lookalike, Steve "Interesting" Davis, where the choice of colours is Simply Red. Smile



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - November 24 2023 at 15:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2023 at 16:11

^ Thanks for the information. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2023 at 06:21

Anyway, a quite good guide to the 1970s German Krautrock movement is Krautrock: Cosmic Rock And Its Legacy (Black Dog 
Publishing 2009).

Edit: It has to be noted though that in the opinion of the publisher, Krautrock never was "a genre or a movement per se" 
- meaning, it's more of a mental construction.




Edited by David_D - November 25 2023 at 11:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2023 at 13:02
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

A lot of early Pink Floyd influence can be heard in much early German prog. Also for sure they didn't only know the Beatles, also they paid attention. "Separation" can always only go so far in music.

I'm quite sure that the Krautrockers knew not so little of the British Prog Rock, so they must have been thinking something about it.


Hi,

It's on the special ... and other specials. They did not want a sound that was anglo-american in general, that was likely to mean more pop song oriented. 

Renate makes it clear that they were trying to be more like classical music, than anything else, as a way to stay away from the pop sentiments.

Holger spoke of this a lot, in other specials ... it's just strange that you make those comments, as if you did not listen to what was being said ... it's right there in the specials ... and the long one that had 6 parts (the 6th was screwed up because of DB) has even more ... but I don't understand why we ignore the comments altogether. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2023 at 04:02
A-Z of Krautrock Artists

18 KARAT GOLD     A golden nugget of Krautrock if ever there was one with their one and only Pop-tastic All-Bumm. Smile

4 stars 1973: 18 Karat Gold - All-Bumm - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnTMfN-WCVI


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 13 2023 at 08:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2023 at 12:03
A-Z of Krautrock Artists

A.G. am     A Teutonic triumph of Krautrock! A band with an unusual name and even more unusual album, sounding more Germanic than drinking a stein of lager whilst dancing on a bierkeller table in lederhosen to the sound of an oompah band. Deutsche-land uber alles. I'll drink to that. Cheers! Beer

4 stars 1977: A. G. am - Erinnerungen an eine Positive Phase - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_o6YNaXrZg


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 13 2023 at 08:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2023 at 09:45
A-Z of Krautrock Artists

A.R. & MACHINES     Welcome to the Machine! Vorsprung durch technik, as we say in England. Achim Reichel (Gesundheit!) is the man behind A.R. & Machines - a spacey Krautrock artist from Germany. Where else!? Smile

 3 stars 1971: A.R. & Machines - Die Grune Reise (The Green Journey) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkEGtS6lD9Y
 3 stars 1972: A.R. & Machines - Echo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXuZBkjRj7k
 3 stars 1972: A.R. & Machines - A.R. 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1RVESVk_Ys
 3 stars 1973: A.R. & Machines - A.R. IV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkckUn8ojb4


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 13 2023 at 08:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 02:09
A-Z of Krautrock Artists

AGITATION FREE    A virtually unknown band (outside of Germany) at the forefront of the Krautrock movement and surely one of the finest Space Rock bands this side of the Milky Way galaxy. This versatile band also have a jazzier side too, which you can hear on The Other Side of Agitation Free, before their ultimate magnum opus, Shibuya Nights: Live in Tokyo. An album and band I'd recommend without agitation. Clap

4 stars 1973: Agitation Free - 2nd - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFlL8i-33u0
4 stars 1974: Agitation Free - Fragments: Live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0HZG3ME9cA
4 stars 1976: Agitation Free - Last - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_dp5mtDfF8
5 stars 1998: Agitation Free - At the Cliffs of River Rhine (Recorded Live in 1974) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngE9aZvKsbY
4 stars 1999: Agitation Free - The Other Sides of Agitation Free - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVlevU2-yH0
5 stars 2007: Agitation Free - Shibuya Nights: Live in Tokyo - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nmV8b19Ez9Eom6a4y8efkxy2BWpGpSKb4


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 13 2023 at 08:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 06:45
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

A-Z of Krautrock

18 KARAT GOLD     A golden nugget of Krautrock if ever there was one with their one and only Pop-tastic All-Bumm. Smile

4 stars 1973: 18 Karat Gold - All-Bumm - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnTMfN-WCVI

Hi,

This is a fun album, and it is well done, but sadly it was never really appreciated and its availability in those days was horrible. It had a lot of neat stuff, a couple things that ended up showing up later with AD2.

This was, Lothar Meid's solo album ... and it was nice, despite it being a bunch of songs. 

"If My Guru Would KNow ... " ... lots of fun stuff in that album.

None of the AD2 folks that had solo albums made a mark. Chris Karrer had several albums, almost none available anywhere, one with Mani Neumeier. My feeling was that the band was so weird together that any chance of any of them being able to do something cohesive was difficult. Lothar Meid ended up doing a few songs, considering what a monster bass player he was in improvisation in the early days, this was a bit out of the norm, and likely designed/defined by someone else. Chris' solo albums are very different, and they tend to highlight his Sufi abilities with his instruments. No one else, that I am aware of had solo albums, and Renate would have been one for sure, but I think she was better at INTERPRETING what was in front of her than she was at trying to find her own idea and thought. I imagine an album of hers would be all over and too crazy for us all fans, but it could/should have had a sentiment of her voice that was used within a classical context in YETI ... but it would require a long piece, and I'm not sure that AD2 had the ability to do long pieces anymore after 1980 ... it became all songs, and even in the few videos found their ability to do longer stuff sounded bored and not wanting to be there. So they concentrated on the stuff that was better known instead.


Edited by moshkito - December 03 2023 at 06:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2023 at 07:30
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

A-Z of Krautrock

18 KARAT GOLD     A golden nugget of Krautrock if ever there was one with their one and only Pop-tastic All-Bumm. Smile

4 stars 1973: 18 Karat Gold - All-Bumm - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnTMfN-WCVI

Hi,

This is a fun album, and it is well done, but sadly it was never really appreciated and its availability in those days was horrible. It had a lot of neat stuff, a couple things that ended up showing up later with AD2.

This was, Lothar Meid's solo album ... and it was nice, despite it being a bunch of songs. 

"If My Guru Would KNow ... " ... lots of fun stuff in that album.

None of the AD2 folks that had solo albums made a mark. Chris Karrer had several albums, almost none available anywhere, one with Mani Neumeier. My feeling was that the band was so weird together that any chance of any of them being able to do something cohesive was difficult. Lothar Meid ended up doing a few songs, considering what a monster bass player he was in improvisation in the early days, this was a bit out of the norm, and likely designed/defined by someone else. Chris' solo albums are very different, and they tend to highlight his Sufi abilities with his instruments. No one else, that I am aware of had solo albums, and Renate would have been one for sure, but I think she was better at INTERPRETING what was in front of her than she was at trying to find her own idea and thought. I imagine an album of hers would be all over and too crazy for us all fans, but it could/should have had a sentiment of her voice that was used within a classical context in YETI ... but it would require a long piece, and I'm not sure that AD2 had the ability to do long pieces anymore after 1980 ... it became all songs, and even in the few videos found their ability to do longer stuff sounded bored and not wanting to be there. So they concentrated on the stuff that was better known instead.
Have you ever heard the debut album by Passport entitled Doldinger, released in 1971? There are a few members of AD2 on it, including Lothar Meid; fantastic and forward looking album, it is!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2023 at 08:46
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
Have you ever heard the debut album by Passport entitled Doldinger, released in 1971? There are a few members of AD2 on it, including Lothar Meid; fantastic and forward looking album, it is!

HI,

At one time I had a lot of Passport albums, most of them early ones that were released anew in 1974 and 1975 as they got better known as Gem (the American Label) released some of the material. I would have to listen to the stuff again to remember it, as it has been a long time. (Archie Patterson would know about this as he was apparently related to Gem at that time)

The strange one for me, is John Weinzierl, whom I thought would be a natural for a solo album, but it never happened. Considering his explosive quitar work in their first decade, it would be a rather unusual for him not to have done a solo album, though I have a feeling that he concentrated on making sure he helped the band better. I think he also kinda ran the website and was a part of the managing of the band, which might have eaten up his time some. The website, for the longest time, did not show "Nada Moonshine #" and in an email he replied ... "b*****d" of the album. he didn't clarify, but I think there were some serious battles about that album, and it might have been that he did not have as much control as he might have thought was needed for a AD2 album ... it was a very good album, although at the time I reviewed it I asked ... what happened to the improvised ability and flow of those moments? 

I think that this was a side of the band that was either forgotten, or they got bored with it.


Edited by moshkito - December 04 2023 at 08:48
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A-Z of Krautrock Artists

AINIGMA     A band who are something of an enigma, having arrived out of the blue like a Graf Zeppelin to deposit their storming blitzkrieg of  rough and ready Diluvium, before just as quickly disappearing off the radar altogether like A V2 Rocket. That's the stuffy of which Krautrock legends are made though, when Ainigma were last seen following their German satnav down the autobahn in the direction of Poland, never to be seen or heard from again. And what is the definition of Diluvium you may well ask? It's sedimentary my dear Watson, and nothing at all to do with Star Trek. Smile

4 stars 1973: Ainigma - Diluvium - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHhRVznFWZc


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - December 13 2023 at 08:38
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