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Do any other younger prog fans feel this way?

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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2023 at 09:47
I was born in the 80s and didn't go to my first concert until 2000. And now many of them are gone. I like the 60/70s, so the only benefit is being able to listen to anything/everything (popular or obscure prog) without paying anything, but the experiences of not seeing enough great live bands (certainly none in their prime, or classic formation) does suck.

I guess I'd recommend finding rare concerts from the 70s, interviews, etc.... Also, there's a lot of great albums from the 70s that might barely have any views, but still great. I know I've found many just from this site alone, and the recommendations, etc..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2023 at 23:34
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Some people seem to resist the idea that prog was born in the UK. I remember not too long ago getting into a debate (or was it an argument) with a guy in a facebook prog group about what was the first prog album (or first prog band).

Hi,

I am not sure that this was true ... it's almost like saying that "progressive" didn't exist in America. 

There were many things that were "progressive", but we seem to be stuck on a set of bands that happen to be English, BUT MADE THEIR MONEY IN AMERICA! Which ought to specify the story a bit, but it's like saying the Fillmore was crap, and that LA and NY did not have a progressive groove. Or Italy! Or France! Or Japan! Or anywhere else!


Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote Seventies prog was very UK centric
It's a myth people blindly trust for some reason. Prog was born in the UK, but soon it spread onto other places, like the rest of Europe, the US, and later other countries where there were already strong rock music scenes, like, I dunno, Canada, Japan, Argentina and so on. And by 1979 prog was made all over the map, despite its decline in the UK.
...

Hardly a myth. The Big Six is recognised to be ELP, Yes, Genesis, ,Floyd, Tull and Crimson. There is a reaon for that. The other bands came later so 'progressive rock' in its purest form was set down by British bands....

I like to say that "prog" or "progressive" was born in America with the FM radio band, and it lived until the great American Corporate Rape that ended in 1980 or so, by which time all the INDEPENDENT radio stations that played those top 6 to the hilt, all became "classic" stations, or in the case of one station in LA, it became a New Age/Wave radio station and it was a number 1 station to give you the idea of the Rape and the Evil around it.

But, by 1980 these bands had brought in massive amounts of money and were given the "credit" for having started it all. They didn't start anything ... they were a part of it all! 

With the outlet of the FM Radio band playing everything and anything out there as an independent (in America ... FM Radio didn't jump as fast in England because the BBC stopped it as much, and as fast as possible. Read Dave Cousins' book on this ... !!!

But, because the huge sales and fame of the big six went down, it didn't mean the music died, or the movement died. By that time it had settled strongly everywhere else in the world, and it continued. For every sale that the big six lost, we gained Le Orme, Banco, Ange, Sadistic Mika Band, ECM stuff that is out of this world, and so many other bands that it was/is impossible to list them all and do them justice. 

... 'progressive rock' in its purest form ... is (in my book) a part of the problem, because the same thing was happening in America, and Italy, and France, and Japan, but was being ignored by the new radio format (which went on to only play the stuff that the main company released or had money in!!!!), and it continues to be ignored by these comments ... we are being ethnocentric again ... take the attitude of "master of the universe" kind of thing. 

When it comes to the arts, there is no such thing, but we have gotten so media minded that we think our media created the world and God while at it ... the rest of the world couldn't possibly have anything to add to the story, now, could it?

I am totally fed up to the back teeth with the petty points scoring attitude of this forum , I mentioned the Italian bands and how much I like them, you then spout a lot of petty nonsense and highlight stuff that I basically alluded to. Its so bloody annoying and now I have to repeat myself again!

The respect USA bands and musicians had for the top UK bands and their influence is self eveident. Nothing to do with sales of albums but just how f**king good they were. The likes of Yes and ELP ruled when they hopped over the pond because USA had nothing like it. I mentioned Italian bands, go back and read my comments and stop being a child.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2023 at 07:26
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Quote Seventies prog was very UK centric

It's a myth people blindly trust for some reason. Prog was born in the UK, but soon it spread onto other places, like the rest of Europe, the US, and later other countries where there were already strong rock music scenes, like, I dunno, Canada, Japan, Argentina and so on. And by 1979 prog was made all over the map, despite its decline in the UK.
Hardly a myth. The Big Six is recognised to be ELP, Yes, Genesis, ,Floyd, Tull and Crimson. There is a reason for that. The other bands came later so 'progressive rock' in its purest form was set down by British bands.

I think, we need to compromise here. UK was definitely the main scene for Progressive Rock in the '70s, but there was also much of it in other European and non-European countries around the world, and not least in the second half of the '70s. Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMSM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2023 at 18:46
Or two or more jerks having a (loud) conversion instead of listening to the music

The same jerks who get annoyed if you tell them to please keep it down, or go someplace else to speak

A number of times this happens at music festivals where they are they with their friends just there from a previous band, and waiting until their band plays at the later time

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMSM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2023 at 19:02
"Classic prog" only lasted a few years when the baby boomers were buying records and Progressive/Compositional Rock was considered "new" thus hip 

Progressive/Compositional rock is non-commercial in general and could have become popular without the above

Progressive/Compositional rock that came after it was still excellent and is probably the only rock music today still turning out innovative material because musicians want to be innovative, and they often do it part time

Prog is most critically reviled music today, mostly because of the group politics Media judging the group of individuals playing it, not the music itself, where it is very politically incorrect (read bigoted) for Music being played by a significant number of Whites, Males, Europeans, Middle Class persons

Prog Archives is great for discovering new bands, and Prog Radio and Youtube (except when they interrupt with commercials in the middle of the song - where I don't buy such products advertised when done)

There are plenty of good dvds out there 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2023 at 21:04
Thank you ermm for that. Lots of things contributed to music being what it was back in the late sixties and early seventies. More technology was available for instance and the possibilities within a recording studio greatly expanded. Pink Floyd couldn't have recorded DSOTM back in 1967 but the band were already in existence. Boomers bought a lot of records so what? Did that make prog what it was, nope. I take the point that it's a mainly a white middle class (male) occupation and that having a copy of the afore mentioned album on a coffee table back then was high couture for the man of the day. Also good that our psychic state was being fully given the gravitas it should be by good ole Rog. Our needs are paramount Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2023 at 21:25
Originally posted by SMSM SMSM wrote:


Prog is most critically reviled music today, mostly because of the group politics Media judging the group of individuals playing it, not the music itself, where it is very politically incorrect (read bigoted) for Music being played by a significant number of Whites, Males, Europeans, Middle Class persons
No, not really. Prog was reviled from the late 1970's and sometime up to the late 1990's, early 2000's. Along with the internet things started to change as music journalists lost their power and influence. People that loved and kept listening to Progressive Rock got a voice, and there were quite a few of us out there. Young and old people that never bought into "three chords and the truth". Very few lists of influential groups or albums would be without King Cimson, Yes, Pink Floyd, possibly Rush and Can... maybe Tangerine Dream... Some equally loathed Jazz Rock-Fusion classics would be featured as well. Only Pink Floyd could be up for consideration ca. 1980-2000, and not because they were progressive rock. But because they weren't thought of as such. And still the fashionable thing to say was that you hate everything post- Syd Barrett. Now you're just not taken seriously anymore if you postulate something in the line of "thank god punk rock came along and killed of this abomination". King Crimson is pretty darned hip and you're more of a dullard if you only enjoy pop-era Genesis than the Gabriel-era. Classic Punk Rock is probably less influential and listened to nowadays actually. A kid or a teen in the 2020's listening to Sex Pistols? Only if mom and dad are ageing punks themselves.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2023 at 21:32
Early 'classic' punk was actually quite sophisticated and not what it was being sold as. Punk was/is one of the great marketing cons of all time but then some would argue the same for 'progressive rock'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2023 at 21:46
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Early 'classic' punk was actually quite sophisticated and not what it was being sold as. Punk was/is one of the great marketing cons of all time but then some would argue the same for 'progressive rock'. 
I didn't really mean to say something negative about punk and especially not Sex Pistols - as I love Never Mind the Bollocks... from start to finish. I'm no kid or teen though:) This was more about the Lester Bangs school of hateful and dismissive "rock-journalism" - which I'm glad has lost it's impact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2023 at 22:51
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

you're more of a dullard if you only enjoy pop-era Genesis an not the Gabriel-era.
-or a serial killer:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2023 at 20:02
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Early 'classic' punk was actually quite sophisticated and not what it was being sold as. Punk was/is one of the great marketing cons of all time but then some would argue the same for 'progressive rock'. 
I didn't really mean to say something negative about punk and especially not Sex Pistols - as I love Never Mind the Bollocks... from start to finish. I'm no kid or teen though:) This was more about the Lester Bangs school of hateful and dismissive "rock-journalism" - which I'm glad has lost it's impact.

I agree with this. especially as it applies to England, the place from which most classic prog came.

At the end of the seventies, these classic prog acts had become so big that they really didn't so much need the English music press' support and gradually started distancing themselves from the main music publications like NME and Melody maker.

The presses reaction at first was to start throwing support behind acts that where more willing to go along with these music publications, and ultimately to big up "punk" whilst at the same time ridiculing any perceived "dinosaurs" (industry code for musicians who make a lot of money without the help of publicity and support from the music press).

It was to the music industries advantage to reduce everything to Year One and start again, with a fresh crop of pimple faced youth ready to do anything to promote whatever the hell it was they were angry about ('cause punk was all about being angry).

But then, punk wasn't about music. It was a fashion statement.

At one time music dictated fashion but then fashion started to dictate music.

The tail was now wagging the dog and that poor hound would never be the same again (poor, confused critter).




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2023 at 20:18
''Fashion is the cancer of music'' (Derek William Dick)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TheMIDIWizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2023 at 20:24
When I listen to a new prog rock band, it always feels like I found a hidden treasure. It always feels good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2023 at 20:40
^I agree with this as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2023 at 20:46
I found a few new ones in just in the last few weeks:

Arabs In Aspic - Powerful Norwegian band very early King Crimson and early Floyd influenced, incredible artwork on their albums as well.
Tauk - USA instrumental combo, their latest 36 minute album (The Equaliser) is a joy.
35 Tapes - Another Norwegian band, rich in melody, loving their latest as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2023 at 18:21
Originally posted by SMSM SMSM wrote:

"Classic prog" only lasted a few years when the baby boomers were buying records and Progressive/Compositional Rock was considered "new" thus hip 

Progressive/Compositional rock is non-commercial in general and could have become popular without the above

Progressive/Compositional rock that came after it was still excellent and is probably the only rock music today still turning out innovative material because musicians want to be innovative, and they often do it part time

Prog is most critically reviled music today, mostly because of the group politics Media judging the group of individuals playing it, not the music itself, where it is very politically incorrect (read bigoted) for Music being played by a significant number of Whites, Males, Europeans, Middle Class persons

Prog Archives is great for discovering new bands, and Prog Radio and Youtube (except when they interrupt with commercials in the middle of the song - where I don't buy such products advertised when done)

There are plenty of good dvds out there 


Well, it's not our fault, us prog fans, that it's almost only white males that play prog. If some great prog music was done by women, afro americans, asians, or whomever else I would love it all the same. But I won't go listening to hip-hop just so I can listen to afro americans doing music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2023 at 06:45
Originally posted by Faul_McCartney Faul_McCartney wrote:

Whenever I listen to late 70s prog, a sense of sadness comes over me, because I know the classic era of prog is almost over. I don't exactly feel like I was "born in the wrong generation". But I feel wistful, knowing I'll never get to see any of my favorite bands perform, at least not in their prime. Something like a medieval peasant looking at the ruins of ancient Rome. I think late 70s prog, especially Genesis from this period, has a sort of sadness to it anyway but it could be my bias.

I feel this way. It was a moment in time. I do think there is good prog music being made now, but it is almost unlistenable with the production values prog-progmetal basically adopted in the 90s. This reverbed out 'live' sound is just awful. Wobbler, with it's in-studio sound a la Fragile, is a recent outlier at least in part because of the production. Why can't this warm, more immediate sound be seen as a production choice rather than labeled 'vintage' or whatever?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2023 at 06:58
^Analog vs. Digital recording
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2023 at 07:47
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

Originally posted by Faul_McCartney Faul_McCartney wrote:

Whenever I listen to late 70s prog, a sense of sadness comes over me, because I know the classic era of prog is almost over. I don't exactly feel like I was "born in the wrong generation". But I feel wistful, knowing I'll never get to see any of my favorite bands perform, at least not in their prime. Something like a medieval peasant looking at the ruins of ancient Rome. I think late 70s prog, especially Genesis from this period, has a sort of sadness to it anyway but it could be my bias.

I feel this way. It was a moment in time. I do think there is good prog music being made now, but it is almost unlistenable with the production values prog-progmetal basically adopted in the 90s. This reverbed out 'live' sound is just awful. Wobbler, with it's in-studio sound a la Fragile, is a recent outlier at least in part because of the production. Why can't this warm, more immediate sound be seen as a production choice rather than labeled 'vintage' or whatever?

It IS a production choice and just happens to be "vintage" since it was established in the 70s.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2023 at 14:16
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by SMSM SMSM wrote:

"Classic prog" only lasted a few years when the baby boomers were buying records and Progressive/Compositional Rock was considered "new" thus hip 

Progressive/Compositional rock is non-commercial in general and could have become popular without the above

Progressive/Compositional rock that came after it was still excellent and is probably the only rock music today still turning out innovative material because musicians want to be innovative, and they often do it part time

Prog is most critically reviled music today, mostly because of the group politics Media judging the group of individuals playing it, not the music itself, where it is very politically incorrect (read bigoted) for Music being played by a significant number of Whites, Males, Europeans, Middle Class persons

Prog Archives is great for discovering new bands, and Prog Radio and Youtube (except when they interrupt with commercials in the middle of the song - where I don't buy such products advertised when done)

There are plenty of good dvds out there 


Well, it's not our fault, us prog fans, that it's almost only white males that play prog. If some great prog music was done by women, afro americans, asians, or whomever else I would love it all the same. But I won't go listening to hip-hop just so I can listen to afro americans doing music.

Errrr....Stanley Clarke?  Frank Zappa?  Chester Thompson?  Billy Cobham??  Plenty of examples of black musicians in prog! 
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