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The First PROG epics |
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moshkito 
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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 Posted: November 21 2023 at 09:27 |
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Hi, For me, it really shows how little listening many folks do. Otherwise, there would be so much more listed. It is one thing to list "favorites", but it is quite another to list MUSIC instead of favorites. And seeing so many things by one band is like saying that person/persons, do not listen to a whole lot of music at all ... and thus, the idea of "epic" gets distorted to "favorite bands" ... and that is not indicative of all the music out there at all. It's kinda sad, in my book. Both ISB and Roy Harper were very important when it came to "poetry" and Robin Williamson has forever said that ISB was about the poetry first, and the music after, and he even said that in many of the works, the music itself was another poem ... specially if you can take away the vocals ... every time I hear EARTH SPAN, guess what I hear? It's not about the song, itself at all. But, lost in these things are some really valuable things that were also very long and helped define what became progressive in rock music ... in jazz alone, in America, it was incredible with Miles and Sun Ra, just to mention 2 folks ... and Oscar Peterson was known to play for 30 minutes straight on one piece, making it an epic ... but to folks here ... so what ... who cares? And the majority of that stuff is STILL not on CD. Well, maybe the Grateful Dead will help change that with the recent releases of their early stuff ... you finally get to hear what the historical bootlegs were all about ... the long cuts and trips! I'm not sure that we can find a "first" in Prog Epic ... mainly because things were so different ... in many ways saying that the Nice's piece was "epic" is kinda sad, since it was obviously an attempt to say VERY CLEARLY ... hear is classical music done with electric instruments, which was VERY NEW at the time! The majority of "progressive music" fans, do not relate to that at all ... thus things like TFTO end up listed, though in my book it deserves it as a Symphony in 4 parts ... and it was this "idea" that really got rock journalists to trash the music, because it wasn't rock'n'roll ... it was insane and not enough people stated that those folks were out of line and not folks that loved music whatsoever. You, me, anyone, either loves music or not ... it doesn't matter what "kind" or "style" it is ... and rock music has been behind a lot of the other arts by at least 5 to 10 years ... something that we might not exactly wish to admit or discuss. Film, theater and literature were way further up the scale in examples of things that became "epic" ... that rock music never even gave it a shot!
Edited by moshkito - November 21 2023 at 09:30 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27956 |
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Posted: November 21 2023 at 07:41 |
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Yep agreed although unsurprisingly (for PA) the thread got derailed quickly. The Top 100 isn't some sort of truth of course. There are plenty of anomalies all over the place (lack of Krautrock or Soft Machine for instance). I would also not have any albums that have less than 500 reviews in it. Doesn't make a lot of difference to ELP which moves up a whole 4 places but then it does let Leftoverture into the list which at least should please Kansas fans!
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43517 |
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Posted: November 21 2023 at 07:30 |
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I checked out number 93 and he means Take A Pebble as example of early epic. Still, I believe the idea of this thread is to point pre KC debut epics. 1970 is no longer early if I may say so. I will also point out that all albums in that top 100 are highly rated. So no need for shaming...
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27956 |
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Posted: November 21 2023 at 07:24 |
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^ Almost certainly an ELP 'obsessive' fan. Yep that No 93 rings a bell, and eventually it will be NIL albums. Perhaps then I will leave the site as a protest
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43517 |
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Posted: November 21 2023 at 00:11 |
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Can you explain better what are you talking about?  First post and it looks like an insult. "Good" start!
 Edited by Cristi - November 21 2023 at 00:12 |
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DerSenator
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Joined: April 13 2020 Location: Kentucky, USA Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Posted: November 20 2023 at 17:08 |
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Even sadder that the band that is inarguably one of the two or three that defined the genre isn't even included on this list. But then when their highest-ranking LP on the "all-time" list only reaches #93, can this site really be called "progarchives" at all? Shameful.
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Cosmiclawnmower
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Joined: August 09 2010 Location: West Country,UK Status: Offline Points: 3627 |
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Posted: November 14 2023 at 13:26 |
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It was a toss up between Incredible String Band or Roy Harper.. Roy's early epics 'Circle' or "come out fighting Ghengis Smith' from the lp of that name, in 1967 was just as good as ISB. And of course, 'Mc Goohan's blues' off Folkjokeopus, 1969. |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18246 |
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Posted: November 14 2023 at 10:11 |
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For pure prog I would say:
Close to the Edge (1972) Tarkus (1971) Atom Heart Mother (1970) Echoes (1971) Thick as a Brick (1972) The Devil's Triangle (if we can count anything over ten minutes long) (1970) Cressida - Let them come when they will (1971)* Rare Bird - Flight (1970)* Mcdonald & Giles - Birdman (1971) Focus - Eruption (1971) Caravan - Nine Feet Underground (1971) Soft Machine - all four tracks from Third (1970) * Haven't actually heard the track but saw that it was long. Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - November 14 2023 at 10:12 |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: November 14 2023 at 08:53 |
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Hi,
I picked up the Grateful Dead's 50th anniversary CD of their early albums. The surprise was FINALLY hearing the stuff that has been on the early bootlegs for so long ... finally released, and cleaned up, and in my book, some of that stuff is much more "epic" than a lot of stuff listed here, some of which is overrated. Even better was how different some things were on the same piece which was neat ... we don't seem to appreciate that much, and think a chord change is more important and made the musical piece better ... guess what .. GD didn't spend their time showing off chord changes to make it look like it was "progressive" and they did not need to. Some of the things in there are far out, and deserve a listen. In the end, it probably shows how much the GD was important in terms of long cuts and the freedom to fool around with them .... and this was the strength of the hundreds and hundreds of bootlegs that were around, which they allowed folks to record off their sound board ... but, FINALLY getting a chance to hear these cleaned up some more, is on a very different appreciation level that so much progressive music is not capable of doing. Highly recommended, if you are not aware of these ... along with Bob Dylan the biggest seller of bootlegs EVER, and the GD never once complained about it. But finally getting these on a clean recording ... is far out and I wish more folks would take on to it, and learn where some progressive folks got their chops and abilities from. |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 27956 |
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Posted: November 14 2023 at 07:59 |
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I guess though that you have to have a differential in terms of style. Also are we saying that a great epic has to be made by a 5 peice line up which has keys, bass, lead and drums? It's rare that I will ever support Pedro but I don't need 10 epics by one band in a list. Maybe 2 or 3. It's never going to be a science anyway. IMO
Edited by richardh - November 14 2023 at 08:00 |
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: November 14 2023 at 07:33 |
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The Moody Blues "The Night" (including "Nights in White Satin" and "Late Lament") from 1967 at 7:24 is quite epic with the interplay of mellotron, orchestra and spoken word.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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BrufordFreak
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8189 |
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Posted: November 13 2023 at 20:03 |
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I have to say, Pedro, that I've never agreed with the limitation of "one song/album per band" for top lists. If a song or album is one of the best (or worst) of all-time, then it deserves to be on a list of "best of all-time" etc. If they're all songs/albums by Yes or Caravan, Miles Davis or IQ, it shouldn't matter: that's the way of "bests." E.g. I'd choose any/all of Mozart's piano concertos over any one elses: his 25 would make my Top 25 (though here it is purely a preferential thing). So, top Prog Epics of all-time? Let ten of them be from Yes! They probably deserve it! |
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15242 |
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 10:22 |
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The claim that it was released in 1969 seems to be a hoax. It was released in 2017. At least there are no reliable records that it's really that old.
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xhouse
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Joined: July 08 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 09:28 |
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There's band on this site called SEVENTH SONS who released and album in 1968 that includes a song supposedly recorded in 1964 called Raga. One could consider this the first, but it's more of an improvisation (and it could very well be a live improvisation). I would consider Zappa's Lumpy Gravy the first.
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Psychedelic Paul
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Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 39930 |
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 09:06 |
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^ If I was putting together my own Top 50 list, then I'd only feature each band once, otherwise I'd have 25 Mostly Autumn albums in my Top 50 list.
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moshkito
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 08:58 |
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Hi, It's not meant as a negative, but a hope that you help us all do a better job putting progressive music on the map. But when a listing only features the same band so many times, I really would like to question HOW and WHY as it would be obvious that someone is pushing those recordings, and not exactly minding the music at all. To me, you have never been about that at all ... you have always posted so much about a lot of music, and much of it that we failed to see and listen to ... but all of a sudden, the labels were reversed ... and I ... had a poor reaction to it. I never expected PP to be posting something that has little relevance, specially compared to PA. Sorry ... in terms of the music itself, I think PA is by far one of the best, although it is becoming difficult to not appreciate the efforts that Mike is putting out in making sure all new releases are seen ... something that we here at PA do not do as good a job about, in my book. I expect more from us all ... getting better and more "valuable" is the most important thing as far as the music itself is concerned, but commercial listings ... hurt. Reminds me of the 80's after the great American Corporate Rape when all FM stations had been bought by Corporate conglomerates, and the only things they played was the material THEY DISTRIBUTED, (for example, the old WEA group) ... and then all that was left was us to say ... Prog has died! It didn't die ... we gave up and didn't care as much for a while!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Psychedelic Paul
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 08:26 |
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^ I knew I could rely on you to put a negative spin on things. It could have been a lot worse if I'd posted my own Top 50 list.
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - November 04 2023 at 08:28 |
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moshkito
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 07:22 |
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Hi, And you consider Reddit, which is a very commercial website, a better informant on progressive music, than PA? The "top 50" should list 50 bands, not so many repeats, which is a sure sign that WEA (or equivalent) owns Reddit and is mostly ensuring the stuff they deliver is shown more to help sales. Will we ever learn ... will we EVER learn ... I doubt it, because the focus is not on the music, but on anything out there, by anyone ... regardless of who they are. And PA's own system, was to be ignored. Just sad, very sad ... specially from PP, who I thought tried to hard to help folks find out more about many bands on PA and such.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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essexboyinwales
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 05:06 |
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<span style=": rgb248, 248, 252;">The Top 50 Prog Epics list was sourced from Reddit - </span>http://www.reddit.com/r/progrockmusic/comments/2smxy4/favorite_long_prog_suites/ [/QUOTE] No IQ, no DT….. 
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Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
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octopus-4
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Posted: November 04 2023 at 04:09 |
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Astral Platypus - Ultimo Contacto Visual 1969 but in a parallel universe.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Cosmiclawnmower wrote: