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edefakiel View Drop Down
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Points: 293 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edefakiel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 03 2023 at 13:13
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by edefakiel edefakiel wrote:

Has everyone listened to this album?



The video is just a preview. 
 
I'm disappointed that Peter Hammill is only on the first track. I bought the CD (from Bandcamp) when I really should only have bought the digital album. The main value of the album should be derived from The Amorphous Androgynous rather than Peter Hammill.
 


If I don't remember incorrectly, Hammill's samples are to be found all over the album. The whole things is just a collection of variations of the first track. I thought that it was pretty interesting and masterfully mixed. I particularly enjoyed the Psych Recap. 
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


If looking closer at the rather early VdGG albums, I see in Pawn Hearts quite a lot of melodical similarity with H to He, and 
the same in Godbluff comparing to Pawn Hearts. That is one of the reasons for I haven't got Pawn Hearts in my collection.

I guess you don't own Foxtrot either?
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

If looking closer at the rather early VdGG albums, I see in Pawn Hearts quite a lot of melodical similarity with H to He, and 
the same in Godbluff comparing to Pawn Hearts. That is one of the reasons for I haven't got Pawn Hearts in my collection.
I guess you don't own Foxtrot either?

Yes, I certainly do. Actually, Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, SEbtP and The Lamb. And regarding ELP, I own the debut, Tarkus, Pictures, Trilogy and BSS. How come this difference comparing to VdGG? Not least because I don't see the same melodical similarity betwen all these albums. Also in that way, I don't see the same melodical creativity in VdGG as in Genesis and ELP.


Edited by David_D - November 04 2023 at 05:48
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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^I'm guessing richardh is trying to follow your logic, or lack thereof. At least if you had replied "correct I don't" to his question - that would have made a similar (non)sense to me. And that is probably what the comparison was about. Not so much the music.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15104 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2023 at 04:56
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^I'm guessing richardh is trying to follow your logic, or lack thereof. At least if you had replied "correct I don't" to his question - that would have made a similar (non)sense to me. And that is probably what the comparison was about. Not so much the music.

It's much a matter of the way, one collects. To me, diversity is very important, but I don't want to have a big collection. So my collection is "only" of  about 500 albums but representing 360 artists from a very large number of styles and countries around the world, and also representing all the decades between 1950 and 2020.
And then, I don't like to listen to an album and hear much of another one in it.


Edited by David_D - November 04 2023 at 08:01
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 11612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2023 at 05:06
^ but Pawn Hearts is a prog masterpiece and if you like the VdGG-albums released before and after it, it's silly not to get to know what many considers their artistic peak on a deeper level. The similarities Pawn Hearts shares with the H to He..., is that the music is made by the same band. Pawn Hearts builds on where the band comes from, but it's grander, wilder, more ambitious and takes bigger risks than ever before. Just normal artistic development. The songs and the themes are brand new.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - November 04 2023 at 05:24
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David_D View Drop Down
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As I see it, H to He was the true masterpiece, including the lyrics and cover art.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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^Sure. They're both among my (relatively few) five stars.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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I wouldn't call any VdGG release a masterpiece.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 11612 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2023 at 07:02
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I wouldn't call any VdGG release a masterpiece.
That's fine of course, but I guess my opinion is more representative than yours as the two albums in question holds the 12th and 34th place on the PA charts (and also Godbluff at 11th).


Edited by Saperlipopette! - November 05 2023 at 01:23
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edefakiel View Drop Down
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Points: 293 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edefakiel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2023 at 07:45
By the way, the remixes of the classic albums by Stephen W Tayler are absolutely top-notch. 

I guess that if your initials are SW, you are a genius of remastering and remixing old progressive rock masterpieces. 



Here you can read an interview done to Stephen about his work: http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/tayler_interview_july21.htm


Edited by edefakiel - November 04 2023 at 07:48
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Chord Change View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Chord Change Chord Change wrote:

Shockingly, there is no thread that I could find with search for Van Der Graaf Generator. 

I think, it would be much better if the thread title was the full name. Smile


I agree. Title changed Wink

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Chord Change Chord Change wrote:

...
Moshkito, I would love to read your book. Please let me know where I can find this content! Smile
I also very much like the Cheap Thrills album, Janis was a truly great musician. 
...

Thank you very kindly. I appreciate it well, and a lot.

...
Thus, my point of view, is often contrary to many stated here and there and everywhere. I wish, that more folks were ATTUNED to the music, a lot more than they are towards their favorites, and they will be all over the favorite threads ... to show their choice. 

Again, thanks a bunch ... and welcome to the board ... 


Without assuming too much, I think I understand your sentiments and I have had similar feelings in the past about music in general. I'm a big fan of a lot of different genre's/sounds of the past and I like looking for the roads less travelled, for lack of a better musical term. I also like popular music and anything that sounds good.

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^ but Pawn Hearts is a prog masterpiece and if you like the VdGG-albums released before and after it, it's silly not to get to know what many considers their artistic peak on a deeper level. The similarities Pawn Hearts shares with the H to He..., is that the music is made by the same band. Pawn Hearts builds on where the band comes from, but it's grander, wilder, more ambitious and takes bigger risks than ever before. Just normal artistic development. The songs and the themes are brand new.


Evans and Banton really stepped their playing up after The Least We Can Do...

Evans' playing on H To He and especially Pawn Hearts is actually extraordinary. 

The albums in question do have some similarities, both contain Fripp guitar on one track for each album. Same studio, same producer and the same instruments(which I believe are stolen on the subsequent tour). The album artwork for Pawn Hearts is by Paul Whitehead just like H To He. 
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

If looking closer at the rather early VdGG albums, I see in Pawn Hearts quite a lot of melodical similarity with H to He, and 
the same in Godbluff comparing to Pawn Hearts. That is one of the reasons for I haven't got Pawn Hearts in my collection.
I guess you don't own Foxtrot either?

Yes, I certainly do. Actually, Trespass, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, SEbtP and The Lamb. And regarding ELP, I own the debut, Tarkus, Pictures, Trilogy and BSS. How come this difference comparing to VdGG? Not least because I don't see the same melodical similarity betwen all these albums. Also in that way, I don't see the same melodical creativity in VdGG as in Genesis and ELP.

Obviously a lot of opinion in there and admittedly I was being facecious. To me there is a much bigger difference between Pawn Hearts and Godbluff than Foxtrot to Selling England By The Pound. 

ELP is a very tricky example because they used a huge amount of equipment compared to Genesis and VDGG. Emerson was keen to exploit everything Bob Moog gave him while Palmer started using drum synths in 1973. On top of that Lake's vocal dropped an octave or so! By 1973 they sounded quite a bit different to when they started.  
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

To me there is a much bigger difference between Pawn Hearts and Godbluff than Foxtrot to Selling England By The Pound. 

I was only talking about the melodical side of it.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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I don't have much to say about them. I know them better than some but not as well as others. They were probably one of the first "lesser known" prog bands I heard of but it took a long time for me to finally hear their music. I was really into them for a while but I listen to so much different stuff that I can't say that I am an expert on their music. Still, a good band to come back to every so often. Some favorite songs include "killer,""pilgrims," and "undercover man."

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - November 06 2023 at 17:21
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

To me there is a much bigger difference between Pawn Hearts and Godbluff than Foxtrot to Selling England By The Pound. 

I was only talking about the melodical side of it.

do you mean compositional side otherwise I have no idea what that means
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

To me there is a much bigger difference between Pawn Hearts and Godbluff than Foxtrot to Selling England By The Pound. 
I was only talking about the melodical side of it.
do you mean compositional side otherwise I have no idea what that means

the tunes
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D View Drop Down
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I can't say, I'm more fond of my VdGG albums than those of Genesis or ELP, but comparing to King Crimson's, the answer 
might be "yes", even not easy - and at least Jethro Tull's, even I love Aqualung.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Van Jackson View Drop Down
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I love VDGG. H to HE, Pawn Hearts, Godbluff; all exemplary, top-tier prog!
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Frets N Worries Frets N Worries wrote:

I'm curious, does anyone have any information on if they'll release another record and/or do another tour? (I don't expect anyone too, and I doubt they will, but I'm curious)

Hi,

Interesting that you would ask that ... I, for one, having been there from the very start (one of my first albums was H to He) in 1969 or so. maybe a year later.

As much work as he has given us, over the years, even as a solo artist, I have no thoughts of more works, and if he retires, to my way of thinking, his now having the time to smell the flowers outside, and enjoy a sunset or two, is a rest that he probably deserves. I imagine that he will still leave us with 1000 pages of poems and whatnot!

When you look at it, from an artist point of view, in the history of the arts, music, literature, painting for example, there are not as many folks that just created so much work, and did it so well and beautifully, for our enjoyment. We may like this or that better, but in the end, the amount of work is one of the most valuable and important of all singer/songwriters ever and he deserves that credit!

I don't think that many, if anyone, will get close to his talent and listing of works.


Edited by moshkito - November 09 2023 at 13:36
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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