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Chord Change View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 01 2023 at 17:05

Shockingly, there is no thread that I could find with search for Van Der Graaf Generator. 

Some have asserted that they are "allergic to that peculiar voice" in the album reviews, to which I believe your prog enthusiast credentials should be automatically revoked if that is the case. 

I am going to make the claim here that Hamill is a god tier musician and the team of Banton, Evans and Jackson are highly underrated.

The fact that either Pawn Hearts or H To He are not in the Top 10 All Time list actually should be against the law. 

To any readers, I highly recommend the book 'Van der Graaf Generator in the 1970s: Decades'

I do not recommend the On Track book unless you want to read someone describing the tracks of the 2004+ era albums. 



Edited by Chord Change - November 05 2023 at 19:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2023 at 17:17

Thumbs Up
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2023 at 17:47
For Me, Still Life remains their best effort, but all their records are fantastic!
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2023 at 23:55
Originally posted by Chord Change Chord Change wrote:


Shockingly, there is no thread that I could find with search for Van Der Graaf Generator. 

Some have asserted that they are "allergic to that peculiar voice" in the album reviews, to which I believe your prog enthusiast credentials should be automatically revoked if that is the case. 

I am going to make the claim here that Hamill is a god tier musician and the team of Banton, Evans and Jackson are highly underrated.

The fact that either Pawn Hearts or H To He are not in the Top 10 All Time list actually should be against the law. 

To any readers, I highly recommend the book 'Van der Graaf Generator in the 1970s: Decades'

I do not recommend the On Track book unless you want to read someone describing the tracks of the 2004+ era albums. 


PA wise Pawn Hearts and Godbluff are numbers 11 and 12. lol.

I've long regarded Pawn Hearts as one of the best albums ever made prog or not. 
I would say that 1970 -1975 will never be matched for creativity in rock and prog music. VDGG are well up there, certainly a Top Ten Prog band and many would put them ahead of the likes of ELP and Camel. It's just good to have all these bands to listen to!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 05:59

My favourite albums are

1. H to He
2. Godbluff
3. Still Life
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 06:04
There have been a few of their records I haven't heard, but
1) Still Life
2) Godbluff
3) Pawn Hearts
4) H to He
5) World Record
6) The Least We Can do is Wave to Each Other
7) Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome
8) Present
9) Do Not Disturb 

and I have yet to listen to the rest of their catalouge, all of these are fantastic records, like King Crimson, they have no 'bad' albums
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 06:25
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I would say that 1970 -1975 will never be matched for creativity in rock and prog music. 

I like much to see this when talking about Progressive Rock. I also agree much in that case, even I wouldn't put it in such an objective way, and "never say never" - but I don't think we will experience it again. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 06:44
Sadly, there doesn't seem to be much hope for another record from the group, leaving Do Not Disturb as a fitting send-off, it seems intentional that the last track they put out was titled 'Go', it seems they know they won't release another album, sad, but one must consider the age of the band
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 07:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 08:16
01: Pawn Hearts is not just my favourite VdGG album, but my favourite album, period.
02: H to He, Who Am the Only One
03: The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other
04: The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome
05: World Record
06: A Grounding in Numbers
07: The Aerosol Grey Machine
08: Godbluff
09: Still Life
10: Trisector
11: Present
12: Do Not Disturb
13: ALT
 

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 08:50
Originally posted by Chord Change Chord Change wrote:


...
Some have asserted that they are "allergic to that peculiar voice" in the album reviews, to which I believe your prog enthusiast credentials should be automatically revoked if that is the case. 
...

Hi,

In my book, the folks that do not like/care PH's vocals, are the rock'n'roll fans that go with their favorites and they don't like singers that know what they are talking about and what they are saying. Those folks will soon say that Bob Dylan is a turkey, that Roy Harper is crap, and that other well known "poets" don't belong in rock music!

I agree that their "credentials" should be revoked, but then, that's like saying that The Grateful Dead was not progressive, and hearing the recent release of their first couple of albums and the different versions of some of their material, it's hard to not think something like ... no progressive folks ever heard this? I'm positive that Steve Howe did and learned to flow from it. Those new versions that made their bootlegs famous, are now available and they are worth it ... however, it is way too late for the "history" of progressive music to be changed, specially when we don't believe in history and only the solo matters!

Expression, is what has made rock music famous ... and the best will always be remembered ... but to progressive folks, even hearing Janis Joplin is not possible because of her expressions and obvious state of mind in many of the pieces. Gimme "Ball and Chain" from that far out album (Cheap Thrills") and it is a lesson about a voice/vocal, not to mention a guitar style that was copied senselessly in "progressive" music!

But folks here, don't like finding out that there were other things out there that might disturb their idea of their top five! Wink
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 10:34
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

01: Pawn Hearts is not just my favourite VdGG album, but my favourite album, period.
02: H to He, Who Am the Only One
08: Godbluff

To be honest, this combination of ranking suprises me, so I'd like to hear your reason for ranking Godbluff so lowly. Smile

                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 11:09
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I would say that 1970 -1975 will never be matched for creativity in rock and prog music. 

I like much to see this when talking about Progressive Rock. I also agree much in that case, even I wouldn't put it in such an objective way, and "never say never" - but I don't think we will experience it again. Smile

yeah it's just an opinion but I feel quite comfortable with it Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 13:14
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

01: Pawn Hearts is not just my favourite VdGG album, but my favourite album, period.
02: H to He, Who Am the Only One
08: Godbluff

To be honest, this combination of ranking suprises me, so I'd like to hear your reason for ranking Godbluff so lowly. Smile
 
Although "Scorched Earth" is currently #4 in my ranking of VdGG tracks, and "Arrow" is also one of my favourite VdGG tracks, the other two tracks are not particularly appealing to me. Bear in mind that the alternative question is why I ranked World Record, A Grounding in Numbers, and The Aerosol Grey Machine higher (I think my top four is uncontroversial). In the case of World Record, this was my initial exposure to VdGG, and thus I am somewhat indebted to the album for enriching my musical tastes. Although the second half of this album is relatively weak, the first half is very strong, "A Place to Survive" rivalling "Scorched Earth" as one of my top favourites. In the case of A Grounding in Numbers, this is a very much underrated album where the trio have found their sound without David Jackson. The sound is somewhat different to earlier VdGG though they do hark back to familiar earlier times on occasion. Also, as a person who is into mathematics, I appreciate the title of the album and a song about Euler's identity. In the case of The Aerosol Grey Machine, this is where it all started. They hadn't yet found their sound but they certainly hint at it throughout the album. I do enjoy most if not all of the tracks on this album.
 
One thing I like about VdGG is how varied their music is, so I can appreciate albums as diverse as Pawn Hearts, The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome, World Record, A Grounding in Numbers, and The Aerosol Grey Machine. I've never been one who wanted a Pawn Hearts II, with Pawn Hearts, H to He, Who Am the Only One, The Least We Can Do is Wave to Each Other, and the second half of Time Vaults providing that early-period VdGG sound that I love so very much. I should remark that between 08: Godbluff and 09: Still Life in my list is the boundary between VdGG albums I like and VdGG albums I never really got into. So I do like Godbluff, it just happens to be my least favourite of the albums I like.
 

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 14:06
@Chord Change. Are you the author of the recommended book?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote edefakiel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 14:39
1) Godbluff. 
2) Still Life.
3) Pawn Hearts. 
4?) The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage.
5) H to He, Who Am the Only One. 

By the way, I really, really recommend Ring van Möbius: https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=10636


One of the highlights of the year for me at least. 


Edited by edefakiel - November 02 2023 at 14:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 15:01
I think Peter Hammill has been, and continues to be, as creatively prolific and culturally important (or more so) as, say, David Bowie (certainly in Europe) but has he been recognized as such?? I have always really enjoyed all the VDGG classic lps but its Chameleon in the shadow of the night, Silent corner and the empty stage and Nadir's big chance that have always really given me full on goose-bumps.

I do recall that someone (possibly Guy Evans) said that Peter Hammill could really do with an editor! He really has been a remarkably prolific artist!

In regards 'allergic reactions to certain voices' i note lots of similar comments about Roger Chapman of Family who i also adore!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dapper~Blueberries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 15:04
VDGG took me a while to get into but they are so awesome! Pawn Hearts and H To He are my favorite albums from them. Peter Hammill's solo discography is also excellent, Silent Corner, Chameleon, Nadir, and A Black Box are just fantastic prog records. Hammill is the unsung hero of the current prog landscape for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 15:17
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

...
In regards 'allergic reactions to certain voices' i note lots of similar comments about Roger Chapman of Family who i also adore!

Hi,

Thank you so much ... his work in both Family and Streetwalkers ... is so special in my book!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 17:02
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

01: Pawn Hearts is not just my favourite VdGG album, but my favourite album, period.

I give it a new listen. Smile
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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