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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21598 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2023 at 14:25
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

@Cindy: If you would have read my post at 10:59 I think you would not have reacted the way you do. Otherwise you're really obtuse and of bad will.

@Mike:
Quote I've just posted the video here to provide a starting point for discussion, and I find it really interesting what people read into that. Honestly, most of it is too ridiculous to address.
Really? Rather typical and classic reaction of those who have no arguments anymore. It is not the first time you do this kind of escape game...

You're welcome to draw that conclusion. Right now I'm tired after a busy day of taking care of my three year old daughter, working a complex day job (in software engineering) and improving my music website. I'm sorry, but digging up everything I've read about Wikipedia through the years, translating it to English (much of it was in German), sorting it by authenticity and neutrality and presenting it to you is just not on the top of my priority list.

Like I said in the other post: We basically all agree that Wikipedia is not neutral on these topics. Even Wikipedia themselves say so. So what exactly is your beef?


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 27 2023 at 14:31
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suitkees View Drop Down
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^ My beef? My beef is that you explicitly considered reactions to your contributions "too ridiculous to address". Personally, I think my post was not ridiculous at all, but if this is your way of behaving on a discussion forum then I honestly think that these kind of forums are not the place for you.

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Points: 21598 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2023 at 15:02
^ I didn't have your post in mind when I wrote that MOST of the responses were too ridiculous to address. In retrospect I think that it is mostly Atavachron's post that falls into this category.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 27 2023 at 15:08
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

..Wikipedia consistently supports the narratives of the rich and powerful.  
.....................
The rich and powerful care about who is in power,  who pays taxes, who gets healthcare, war, commodities, money, large corporations, intelligence agencies, Covid, ect...  Wikipedia spews propaganda with extreme bias on issues such as these.Wink

To support the narratives of the rich and powerful is not enough to have much bias on the issues you're referring to, and it's more a question of from which perspective it's done, and which attitudes and opinions the articles express.

David, I think I made it clear.  Poor people are not driving propaganda.  The perspectives, attitudes, and opinions that the articles express belong to the rich and powerful.  The articles express the rich and powerful perspectives, attitudes, and opinions in order to manipulate regular folks into making decisions against their own personal interests...and to enrich the rich and powerful. 

 How does a war in Israel and Palestine enrich me?   I pay taxes so that Israel can destroy Palestine. Israel has a better healthcare and education system than America.   What do I get? Higher inflation, as the FED prints more money to fund Israel's and Ukraine's war.  And it's escalating.  America attacked positions in Syria yesterday while threatening Iran. America has over 33 trillion dollars in debt. We pay over a trillion dollars in interest...each year.  Meanwhile, we pay off Israel's debt of 292 million.  Do the math David.  America's 33 trillion in debt vs Israel's 292 million.   And we send tens of billions to Israel every year.  We're gonna send Israel an extra 15 billion. 

How are regular folks in my neck of the woods doing?   To afford a home in Texas you must earn at least $115,000 per year... minimum. What is the new trend?  Poor and the lower end of the middle class cannot afford an apartment. They congregate in parking lots,  live in their cars, and go to work at jobs that pay $35,000 per year. Living in their car, they still pay taxes that enrich the rich. I refuse to cheer those who want to send me to the poor house. Wink

I'm blessed with a good job and a knack for trading the stock market.  In the stock market, I make money in the good times and bad times.  So why do I care what the rich and powerful do?  Because after I die, I want to believe that the next generation of regular folks will be able to afford a home, holidays, healthcare, and a happy life...a life where the government leaves them alone.  Tongue





Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 27 2023 at 17:46
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King of Loss View Drop Down
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I might admit. This thread is getting good! Keep it up, guys!
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Flossy.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 15562 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2023 at 18:20
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

So why do I care what the rich and powerful do?  Because after I die, I want to believe that the next generation of regular folks will be able to afford a home, holidays, healthcare, and a happy life......  Tongue

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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

...a life where the government leaves them alone.  

The governments can do much good, like they have done it in Scandinavia and other European countries. Smile
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Points: 21598 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2023 at 23:48
^ Yeah, like here in Sweden where they have disabled the police forces and the health care system ... LOL
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Yeah, like here in Sweden where they have disabled the police forces and the health care system ... LOL

I mean in historical perspective and not just the last 30-40 years... don't bullsh*t. LOL
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Points: 21598 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2023 at 01:53
^ Strange definition of bullsh*t you have there.
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Cindy, I'd say, there is in general much manipulation of "regular folks into making decisions against their own personal interests...and 
to enrich the rich and powerful. ", but I have not seen it in Wikipedia. On the contrary, my impression is that they care much about 
interests of common people.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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^ Well said. Clap
 
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Points: 10679 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2023 at 06:43
Government overreach in the US south: "Revenuers done tore down the still again dag nabbit!"
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Points: 4918 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2023 at 11:44
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

However, people are also using wikipedia to look up hot topics like the history of the state of Israel, the Ukraine war, Covid 19, and so on. It is these topics that we are discussing here. On those, I would say, Wikipedia is just as unreliable as any major news outlet, but whereas it is obvious that news outlets are biased, Wikipedia appears like a neutral source, which makes it worse IMHO.
 
Why do you think Wikipedia is unreliable on the topic of COVID-19? I read about COVID-19 in Wikipedia. Because I have a scientific background, I very much took an interest in the technical details of the coronavirus as well as the vaccines developed for the coronavirus. I saw no reason to question the veracity of the information presented in the articles. I accept that the scientific researchers who are working on the virus are in a better position to know the truth about the virus and any treatments than anybody else.
 
It should be noted that claims of bias generally require facts to validate them. Bias is a distortion of the truth in favour of the bias and therefore needs the facts to determine if a distortion has actually occurred. In other words, if the facts themselves favour the opposition, this is not bias, but may be an indication that one has chosen the wrong side. But where is one getting the facts in order to justify a claim of bias? In order to claim bias in Wikipedia, one needs a source of information that is more reliable than Wikipedia. What is such a source? Nobody is saying that Wikipedia is perfect. The real question is whether Wikipedia is a useful source of information, and can we forgive any shortcomings that we know exists.
 
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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All media is propaganda.
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Points: 21598 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2023 at 01:52
^ Yes. It should be noted that all the major news outlets in the US (and elsewhere, too) are entertainment channels. CNN do not exist primarily to inform people accurately and neutrally of what is happening around the world - they exist to make money from advertising. To maximise revenue it naturally follows that they try to present content that a large group of the population appreciates and agrees with. If the content presented was neutral and unbiased, they would probably lose viewers who tune in with the expectation to have their worldview confirmed (no alarms and no surprises). Same for Fox on the other "side" of the many-faced coin which is the global uniparty system in the West. LOL
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Here's some in-depth info on just a little bit of recent bullsh*tting. Also a good example of great investigative journalism! https://open.substack.com/pub/dossier/p/douglas-macgregor-advanced-fake-gaza
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

So the question is: Can propaganda be used to advance an ideology, if it represents values you approve of? Or put more simply: Do the ends justify the means?

By now, I guess, you can guess my answer.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21598 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2023 at 05:18
^ Not really. I browsed the last pages, and did not find any comment of yours that would suggest an answer to my question.
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