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Prog-jester View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

This is the only Propaganda that I passionately believe in....
oh wow I discovered something actually cool thanks to this thread
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Will you fight for the rights of cabbages? Will you fight for the rights of lima beans?? Sucked up into outer space, I was forced to eat planets. My poops are so large that they block out the sun. All the eggs have escaped and all we're left with are coloring books. It's the right thing to do if you have a feed bag. The core of the Earth is made out of hampers. Viewer discretion is advised.


Stop spreading your propaganda! Think about the children! They won't understand and turn to unthinkable self-harm. Just reading this makes me want to snort packets of jell-o!

Whoops! Embarrassed I thought with a thread title like Propaganda, we were supposed to post propaganda, or at least something about poop or coloring books. My bad. Eating too many meteorological pants certainly puts things in perspective. I hope I brought my microfiber floor mop. May your snack bags be snack bags!


How dare you call my snack bags snack bags, you silly aardvark! May the ants you feast upon exhibit whirlings of psychedelic undulations that reverberate into meteorological metamorphosis! And how did you know i love to eat Poop Tarts?

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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Ah the propaganda thread, it may not have been the op's intention, but to PA's resident keyboard warriors, its an open invitation to assert their propaganda ... and off we go.
OP's intention was to remind everyone here to use nuance and apply media literacy when reading about current events or history and not to fall for sensationalist headlines completely built around deliberate lies manifesting as propaganda. OP wants people here not be f**king idiots, like the major media companies, and spread disinformation that leads to the burning down of a historic synagogue in Tunsia because people are angry at an event that did not happen and were falsely reported without being fact checked.

OP is simultaneously outraged and disappointed and believes the parties responsible for their lack of journalistic integrity need to either need to take accountability or to be held liable for their careless and dangerous recklessness.

OP has lost all faith in the media, and doesn't trust anything he reads online anymore.

Edited by bardberic - October 20 2023 at 11:10
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Investigative reporting seems to be a dead art.  News outlets mostly push whatever narrative they are being fed and spout opinions. 
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^ Tell that to an investigative reporter.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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^ I bet any real journalists that are left would agree.  Are there still any real journalists left in mainstream media, or did they all leave?  

The major news networks function more like reality shows than news networks!
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^ You mean the real journalists would agree with my post, or yours-- ?  


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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^ His point is that there seem to be hardly any real journalists left in the mainstream media. Actually if there are, they probably agree with his post more than with yours, since he is not attacking them.

Your actual point seems to be that he is accusing "real" journalists of not doing their job properly. Can you give a few examples of current "real" journalism in mainstream media? Then we could look at that and see whether we all agree that it is actually good, and why (or why not).


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 20 2023 at 15:32
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Yeah I got his point.  This is why text discussions can be challenging.

Real journalism in mainstream media?   That's easy, but I'm not really looking to debate who may or may not be real journalists in your eyes.   I think of Rachel Maddow (who just released Prequel about the history of Fascism in the US), I think of the reporters in Ukraine & the Middle east, I think of the hard-working people who produce Democracy Now.   

But again, what I take issue with is the assumption, in fact the complete belief, that other individuals ~ serious people, as serious as anyone else who takes things seriously, who know a hell of a lot more about what's going on in the world than you or I do---   y'know, who have been there ~ are not only fooling themselves but intentionally misleading everyone else.   It doesn't ring true and smacks of the current wave of "don't believe anything you see or hear or smell or read or taste or feel or perceive."
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yeah I got his point.  This is why text discussions can be challenging.

Real journalism in mainstream media?   That's easy, but I'm not really looking to debate who may or may not be real journalists in your eyes.   I think of Rachel Maddow (who just released Prequel about the history of Fascism in the US), I think of the reporters in Ukraine & the Middle east, I think of the hard-working people who produce Democracy Now.   

But again, what I take issue with is the assumption, in fact the complete belief, that other individuals ~ serious people, as serious as anyone else who takes things seriously, who know a hell of a lot more about what's going on in the world than you or I do---   y'know, who have been there ~ are not only fooling themselves but intentionally misleading everyone else.   It doesn't ring true and smacks of the current wave of "don't believe anything you see or hear or smell or read or taste or feel or perceive."


Rachel Maddow, really?  I have to admit i hardly ever listen to her but what i did hear, especially during the pandemic, she was a total idiot.  Why wasn't she censored for all her misinformation?

I would consider Matt Taibbi to be of professional quality.
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^ So that's one for you.   There must be others... besides I don't think many people would want to tell Taibbi he's a misinforming phony to his face.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yeah I got his point.  This is why text discussions can be challenging.

Real journalism in mainstream media?   That's easy, but I'm not really looking to debate who may or may not be real journalists in your eyes.   I think of Rachel Maddow (who just released Prequel about the history of Fascism in the US), I think of the reporters in Ukraine & the Middle east, I think of the hard-working people who produce Democracy Now.   

Ok, I'll bite - about Rachel Maddow: https://www.racket.news/p/rachel-maddows-shocking-new-low

Please spare me the accusation of being pro-Trump (which I'm not) - this is about propaganda, and the whole Russiagate thing was, we know by now, pure propaganda. 

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

But again, what I take issue with is the assumption, in fact the complete belief, that other individuals ~ serious people, as serious as anyone else who takes things seriously, who know a hell of a lot more about what's going on in the world than you or I do---   y'know, who have been there ~ are not only fooling themselves but intentionally misleading everyone else.   It doesn't ring true and smacks of the current wave of "don't believe anything you see or hear or smell or read or taste or feel or perceive."

What you take issue with is something that is evidently true: If you look at the complete landscape of journalism you'll find people who have been working in the field, often literally (reporting from the battlefield), are well respected and quoted by major platforms, and yet arrive at polar opposite positions from one another. That MUST mean that some (or - unlikely - all) of them are either fooling themselves or intentionally misleading people. It doesn't matter what they say in particular, or which topic we look at - if they arrive at mutually exclusive positions, then they can't all be right.

The unfortunate truth is that we humans are easy to fool. Those pescy emotions and biases ...
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^ But if the perceptions are in variance, that just shows the perceptions of those individuals are at least sincere and correct to the best of that reporter's knowledge, not part of one or more scripts schemes or conspiracies, but which will certainly be incomplete and inadequate.   But that's just reality.





Edited by Atavachron - October 20 2023 at 17:16
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Oh! I was hoping this might be a discussion/appreciation thread for the underappreciated 1980s international pop group that worked with Trevor Horn and others. Oh well.
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Shake yer booty to the REAL Propaganda in the house!


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Points: 20414 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2023 at 04:30
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It is almost impossible to KNOW you're right about any of the big narratives of our time. For each of them there are a number of "counter-narratives", and for each of the competing narratives there are many sources to quote, many debunkings, many confirmations, each of which have their own sets of confirmations or debunkings. A bottomless rabbit hole ...

The big narratives are not only about facts but also about ideologies, and thus deeply sticking and complicated - which doesn't mean, they're impossible to deal with, it just needs quite a bit of effort.


Edited by David_D - October 21 2023 at 07:05
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^ I would say that the big narratives are mostly about ideologies. All of them include facts, fake facts, correct assumptions and wrong assumptions, which makes it really hard to figure them out. Congratulations if you managed to do it, in which case I would wonder how you can be certain of it. I have put a lot of effort in the attempt, and I would say that I know a lot more about many of them than the typical person does, yet I am in no way certain that I have figured them out. 
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Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Ah the propaganda thread, it may not have been the op's intention, but to PA's resident keyboard warriors, its an open invitation to assert their propaganda ... and off we go.
OP's intention was to remind everyone here to use nuance and apply media literacy when reading about current events or history and not to fall for sensationalist headlines completely built around deliberate lies manifesting as propaganda. OP wants people here not be f**king idiots, like the major media companies, and spread disinformation that leads to the burning down of a historic synagogue in Tunsia because people are angry at an event that did not happen and were falsely reported without being fact checked.

OP is simultaneously outraged and disappointed and believes the parties responsible for their lack of journalistic integrity need to either need to take accountability or to be held liable for their careless and dangerous recklessness.

OP has lost all faith in the media, and doesn't trust anything he reads online anymore.

This is the problem: If you dig just a little bit into the mainstream media news, you find lots of contradictions. I agree that none of it is trustworthy anymore, but if that is so, how can you even approach media "literacy"? 

Of course I know which event you are refering to, and I agree - but there are probably deeper layers of understanding that are more difficult to fathom and also more problematic in terms of ideology than just the direct debunking of the mainstream message covering it.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I would say that the big narratives are mostly about ideologies. All of them include facts, fake facts, correct assumptions and wrong assumptions, which makes it really hard to figure them out. Congratulations if you managed to do it, in which case I would wonder how you can be certain of it. I have put a lot of effort in the attempt, and I would say that I know a lot more about many of them than the typical person does, yet I am in no way certain that I have figured them out. 

A world without ideologies would be a world of populism, selfishness and a lot of other bad things - which doesn't mean all ideologies are good.


Edited by David_D - October 22 2023 at 12:51
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