Quo Vadis Ukraine?

^ Let's not get ahead of ourselves ... it's still only Ukrainians who are dying. I find it sad, but all the Western leaders don't seem to have a problem with it, or at least they prefer it to finding a diplomatic solution. I find it a to be horrible crime (against humanity), but apparently I'm part of a minority. We'll see what happens when all Ukrainians are dead and the entire Ukraine lies in ruins. I don't think that NATO will then escalate any further. There's other countries to turn the attention to.

So the Westerners have been given the chance to learn about the invasion from two people who are living through its aftermath every day on a personal level and who both have a long history in dealing with the Russian government, yet the Westerners need not listen because they have youtube videos.

^^ Thanks for reviving the "stay in your lane" argument. Well, by the same reasoning I can now stop worrying about Ukraine altogether, since it doesn't concern me. None of my business - thinking about it could well be seen as "intellectual appropriation".

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 12 2023 at 08:27

You're looking for scott ritters and noam chomskys to bathe happily in your echo chamber. It's almost like you WANT Ukraine to lose?..

Prog-jester wrote: Ukraine in 2022: wins the battle of Kyiv, liberates Kharkiv oblast, snatches back Kherson Ukraine in 2023: makes the russian fleet (or rather what's left of it) run for their lives, liberates more than 300 kms2 during fAiLeD summer counteroffensive, constantly attacks with drones several russian oblasts Some guy on YouTube: uKrAiNe iS aLrEaDy LoSt

omphaloskepsis wrote: Again, you ignore Russia's goals

Facts are stronger than goals And facts is all share in this thread

omphaloskepsis wrote: Liberate the four Ukraine Oblasts

of course you mean invade? Because everyone at this point knows what russian LiBeRaTiOn looks like

On my points from pages 6 and 7 - I've copied them for Mike here since he's been avoiding addressing those for three days now, claiming they're "buried under layers of trolling" or smth like that. I don't expect him to respond but it's good to have them all in one post (sorry for the long one!)

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Crimea declared independency

late February 2014: russian soldiers enter Crimea, kill/kidnap some officials and military, annex the territory
mid-March 2014: Crimean referendum - surprisingly!!!!! - declares that Crimea wants to be in russia, so unexpected! Just the way Putin wins every election in russia every time, what a coincidence...

MikeEnRegalia wrote: a pro-western regime was installed in the Ukraine in February 2014

lol literally nobody was ruling Ukraine at that time - everybody was quite surprised to see Yanukovitch flee and Ukraine was actually presidentless until May 2014. But hey, by saying "was installed" it's obvious you're not taking us seriously as an INDEPENDENT country

MikeEnRegalia wrote: NATO tricked Putin

I wonder who "tricked" Putin into invading Sakartvelo (Georgia) and Ichkeriya (Chechnya)...those NATO tricksters!!! Somehow Finland is okay tho, despite joining NATO this year - no threats from russia, nothing

MikeEnRegalia wrote: There's surely ultra-nationalists on both sides. What does that have to do with the conflict?

well wasn't "denazification" one of the main "righteous" excuses for russia to invade? and suddenly it's not that important?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Are you really saying that if Ukraine had granted independence to the Donbass oblasts and not terrorized the people there, Russia would have killed them all?

This is literally what russia is doing. Because they never cared for people of Donbass, they simply used them to invade Ukraine. As someone who was born on Donbass and spent 2/3 of my life living there - yes, people mostly speak russian there (because colonialism), but it doesn't mean they ever wanted to live in russia. There's a great book written by two Donbass residents on how russia metodically brainwashed and bribed Donbass authorities to undermine Kyiv's influence. I highly doubt you'll read it (since you'd made up your mind on the russian invasion and see the things the way you wanna see them), but it's a fascinating read nevertheless

Prog-jester wrote: omphaloskepsis wrote: Again, you ignore Russia's goals Facts are stronger than goals And facts is all share in this thread  like

Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 12 2023 at 09:51

Ukraine official admits the truth...facts.

omphaloskepsis wrote: Prog-jester wrote: omphaloskepsis wrote: Again, you ignore Russia's goals Facts are stronger than goals And facts is all share in this thread  like "Facts are stronger than goals."   What does that even mean?  If it's a fact that you brush your teeth twice a day...is that fact stronger than The Globalist goal to stop global warming?  If it's a fact that you lift the toilet lid before peeing...is that fact stronger than NATO's goal to make Ukraine a member?