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Quo Vadis Ukraine?
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Prog-jester View Drop Down
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Points: 5909 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2023 at 11:43
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Maybe for starters try to write Donbass correctly if you want some confidence for the "information" that you try to spread here...
As someone who was born on Donbass and lived for 2/3 of my life there - grazie!
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

^ I will agree that the western meddling in the 2014 Euromaidan uprising may well have been a mistake and contributed for sure to the situation we have now. (Not that Russia didn't try to manipulate events their way as well, they were just less successful.)
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From 2014 to Dec 2021,  the American-backed Ukraine government killed 14,000 Ukrainians in the Dombass.
Where's that information from? I have read quite a bit on this and you generally find a number of around 14,000 dead on both sides combined, that includes victims of the Russia-supported rebels. Russia actively supported these rebels, so it doesn't wash to present events as if innocent Russian-minded population was massacred by evil Ukranians. It was a civil war. In fact there was a rebel government in place that declared independence already before Russia invaded Ukraine. Also you find that it was very difficult to get reliable information from that area from that time as both parties weren't keen on letting journalists do independent work, so you must have very special sources to claim what you claim there with confidence. 

That you still refer to the referendum results under Russian military rule as if they were legitimate is ridiculous. Maybe for starters try to write Donbass correctly if you want some confidence for the "information" that you try to spread here...

America has started wars with many countries. After America gains the upper hand, they sponsor elections. Using your logic...all those elections are ridiculous.

My entire thought process is invalidated by a misspelling?Wink I count three grammar mistakes in the post of yours I just quoted. Does that disqualify your ideas?

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Points: 15151 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2023 at 12:04
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:


My entire thought process is invalidated by a misspelling?Wink I count three grammar mistakes in the post of yours I just quoted. Does that disqualify your ideas?

Errr... there's some discussion of your "thought process" (or rather of what you wrote) in my posting. Let's see whether you'll write something about that other than whataboutism ("the Americans in some other countries..." Sleepy). Also I'm not an expert on English grammar but you made yourself sound like an expert on Donbass.
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

America has started wars with many countries

and russia been trying to colonize Ukraine for ages (reading wikipedia could help), but of course you see it from an imperialist perspective, denying us the will to decide our own fate. How anti-war of you
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I won't trade insults.  I was wrong to do so.  From now on, I'll ignore off-topic insult tangents.  I'll remain on topic. 

Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 09 2023 at 10:49
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well nothing is a reliable source then, there's no war, it's just money-laundry-scheme for dems (or whatever theory Elon Musk helps to spread)

but if there's no war why two of my friends are killed by russian soldiers and my mom lives under russian occupation since 2014?

You don't have to answer, I'm just a forum user, not a reliable source. I don't exist for you, we never existed for y'all anyway
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Maybe for starters try to write Donbass correctly if you want some confidence for the "information" that you try to spread here...
As someone who was born on Donbass and lived for 2/3 of my life there - grazie!
Nice to hear from you again Igor. May you and your people persevere. I am still helping Razom Inc provide needed medical supplies.

Edited by Easy Money - October 08 2023 at 13:27
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thank you! Kinda regretted walking into a non-musical part of the forum today, but it's good to know there's support and understanding here too
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

thank you! Kinda regretted walking into a non-musical part of the forum today, but it's good to know there's support and understanding here too
There is for sure.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ If you have a bone to pick with Trump, why not create a thread about him instead of hijacking this one? And as speaking of traitors and corrupt politicians, do I have to mention Hunter‘s laptop?

If you want to report me, then do it.   Who the American president is, is relevant.  

But ... Hunter's laptop ?   Wow, now I see the problem.   Is that where Sweden is with current events, or is that just your own divorce from reality?   No one cares about Hunter's laptop because it is utterly irrelevant.   Let me say that again: No one cares , and they shouldn't.

What Trump and his sick followers care about is assaulting an eighty year-old man with a hammer.   What Trump and his sick followers care about is kidnapping & raping a governor.   What Trump and his sick followers believe in is destroying the United States.   But yeah... I'm so sorry I've hijacked your little discussion.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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^ Now who's the master baiter? 
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Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

well nothing is a reliable source then, there's no war, it's just money-laundry-scheme for dems (or whatever theory Elon Musk helps to spread)

Who's been saying that there is no war?
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Now who's the master baiter? 

I pleasure myself frequently, but that's off point.   And naughty.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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^ And a bit callous and rude in a thread about an actual war. 

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 08 2023 at 15:33
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Yes you're right, I feel terrible.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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^ I doubt you‘re capable of feeling anything.
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Ouch.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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I can see myself making a typo on Donbass (I don't think I have so far), given that the m key is right next to the n key on an English KB (which I use at work), but isn't on a French KB (at home). If I made the typo, would that make me a dumbass ??? ConfusedTongueWink

OK, politically incorrect play on word, so I apologize.ShockedEmbarrassed

Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

oh wow didn't know you is ok with trusting Putin's talking points (and trusting Putin in general) and using those in arguments with sane ordinary people.
I'm so sorry we Ukrainians still somehow exist, bro. At least I hope you're entertained by the genocide so don't worry, with friends like you we won't even need enemies like russia, we'll be gone soon


Please don't put me on Putin's side, because I'm not making any excuse for his general arseholery and ugly killing sprees around the old USSR sphere of interest. (as I denounced in Georgia, though much of that was mainly before him) .
Actually, I loathe the bàstàrd, to the point that his "in" name end sides him along with Lenin and Stalin in my book.
I'm just stating historical and geopolitical context of why Russia is feeling aggressed by the west's expansion. Something that our capitalist and expansionist western world is simply not wanting to understand.

The only thing I'm really saying is that NATO has become really toxic (for both Russia, Ukraine and also the West) and is as much to blame for this war, as Putin is or Ukraine's past two decades' aggressions against its own minority.
Something (national minorities being aggressed) that nobody in the UN, except for Russia, denounced, but it's clearly written in UN status rules that national minorities should be treated with respect >>> BTW, we've heard nothing of the important Ukrainian minority in the first 100km east, north & south of the Donbass, but if they were mistreated, I guess we'd all have heard about it.

Of course, now that NATO got what they wanted (Russian aggression), everybody is saying (me included) that we are glad they still exist. In other words, they just regained their raison d'être for decades to come. And the west is getting rid of its now-old arms & amunitions towards Ukraine, in order to buy new killing stuff - which is of course all beneficial to weapon manufacturers.
But NATO is sooooo toxic that pretty soon, they (Nato) will give lessons to the CIA about how to foment trouble across the planet, because the pupil has become better than the master.  If I were Brussels' emperor (my place of birth and my hometown for 30 years), the first thing I'd do to sanitize my region, I'd kick out Nato(s HQ as far as I could (well maybe not as far as ... KievTongue).


.


Edited by Sean Trane - October 08 2023 at 17:42
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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me:
- dude, would you actually listen to Ukrainian voices?? You know, the ones who know russia better than anyone else???

a know-it-all westerner:
- nope I understand the situation better, NATO's blame here

russian soldiers: burn Ukrainian books, kill Ukrainian techers, bomb Ukrainian schools, churches and hospitals, no word on NATO

a know-it-all westerner:
- yep NATO provoked them, see

Putin himself:
- I'm like Peter the Great, I want conquer all the lands that russian empire used to have, this is purely imperialistic invasion

a know-it-all westerner:
- NATO bad
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you probably think every victim of r*pe is partially to blame - for dressing iNAppRoPriAteLy
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