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From Genesis To Revelation and Beyond |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29353 |
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Genesis is 1970-1980 then I'm pretty much out. FGTR (recorded in 1968) just misses the mark entirely when you look at how the British art rock scene was beginning to progress at that time. The likes of Procol and The Nice were already so far ahead its ridiculous. They needed more homework!
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20409 |
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Knowing the Genesis story, it makes it easier to finds the seeds that grew into Tresspass & stuff At first, I heavily WTF'd when I brought it home (different title too) and rejected it for years, but little by little, I've grown to like it. Not that I woukd play it lore often than others. (It's been years since I've spun a Genesis album, anyways)
I far prefer FGTR to anything Post-Duke (with the possible tie with Shapes), because by the time they went onto Abacrap, they were professionals with huge means, whereas for Revelation, they were total amateurs.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 45581 |
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Jonathan King is partly to blame for the songs being shorter, also he meddled in arranging some songs. Edited by Cristi - September 20 2023 at 05:16 |
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Sean Trane ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20409 |
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I wouldn't say he is to blame, but more likely thanked. These high-school boys didn't have the chops or inspiration to make a Tresspass 0.5 No JK, no Genesis, AFAIAC.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 45581 |
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You are probably right, just saying that song length was Jonathan King's decision, that's all. Tony Banks said in an interview some of the songs were initially longer.
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AlanB ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: January 19 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
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I think there was a Christian band around called Genesis at the time, this may have contributed to the confusion.
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Psychedelic Paul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 43232 |
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I read that producer Jonathan King wanted Genesis to sound like the Bee Gees (his favourite band) on their first album, although that would've been a Tragedy for prog fans. Anyway, they came up with the Bee Gees pastiche, Silent Sun, just to placate Jonathan King.
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Psychedelic Paul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 43232 |
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Genesis on Tiswas in 1981 where Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford achieved their ambition of appearing in Compost Corner with David Bellamy (Lenny Henry).
![]() Edited by Psychedelic Paul - September 10 2024 at 09:13 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18879 |
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True prog was barely a thing when Genesis recorded FGTR so I hope no one listens to it expecting to hear something that sounds like the later "prog" Genesis. That just would not be possible at the time (Court wasn't even released yet and Fripp was still in GG&F). I actually like it a lot but I appreciate it more for what it is rather than what it isn't. Duke may have been the last Genesis album to have 50 percent more on it to be prog but they still had some good (and even proggy) moments after it imo.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 10 2024 at 10:48 |
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Psychedelic Paul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 43232 |
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^ Genesis started off sounding like the Bee Gees on FGTR, whereas ELP ended up looking like the Bee Gees on Love Beach.
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verslibre ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 18512 |
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ELP were clearly more successful at looking like 'em than Genesis did sounding like 'em. ![]() |
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18879 |
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Yep. Pretty much.
![]() Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - September 10 2024 at 20:26 |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29353 |
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Enough for an album maybe?
Abacab Keep It Dark Dodo/Lurker Home By The Sea (Part One and Part Two) The Brazilian Domino Fading Lights I thought they were still pushing on Abacab and Shapes but after that there is just a feeling of erm Stagnation ![]() |
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Big Sky ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 24 2022 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 762 |
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Richardh,
Add Mama and Driving the Last Spike, but you pretty much hit the highlights of Genesis from Abacab album moving forward to Calling All Stations. Edited by Big Sky - September 10 2024 at 22:53 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18879 |
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I think you named most of the real proggy tracks there (post Duke). Don't forget that Domino was also in two parts.
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AFlowerKingCrimson ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18879 |
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Yeah, only none of the songs he listed are from Calling All Stations which was probably intentional.
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18044 |
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HI, Hmm ... it didn't seem to bother Anthony Phillips much, I don't think as he ended up doing so much of all sizes, shapes and whatnot. But at the time, it was a SINGLE that helped bands get heard and also seen ... and in England, the BBC made sure for many years that the FM radio signal did not get the attention and power that it had in America (usually longer cuts than AM radio) until it was raped! (Dave Cousins book has a massive history of it as he was trying to put together FM stations) ... so a producer at the time insisting on singles and small stuff is not surprising ... many bands did it ... Caravan's first album is a good example, Pink Floyd is a better example, and I kinda think that Syd leaving opened the way OUT OF SINGLES, though the record company still tried up until DSOTM, by which time I think they knew PF was not going to be about singles ... but heck ... later one song from The Wall brought in more money as a single ... even cut up and shortened! My thoughts are that by 1972 and beyond, the market for "singles" had died down quite a bit, specially in America with FM being strong for the whole decade until it was raped. Beyond 1980, I don't know that I can name a band that depended on singles so much although England had a few of them that were always trying to get a single out ... I was thinking SLADE and other bands like it, likely their college circuit ... but I think that by 1985 ... it was all album, and when the Internet came around in the early 90's I think that singles got eaten up even more ... and record companies were not even trying to advertise anymore. The history of this stuff is kinda neat ... wish we could put it all together in a better, clear and concise way for PA ... something valuable for folks getting to know Progressive Music, which we can easily say had its roots in Classical Music ... despite folks thinking it was just chord changes and time changes and weird/farout vocals, which were much longer and made singles difficult to cut up.
Edited by moshkito - September 16 2024 at 12:07 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29353 |
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The singles market was always strong in the UK, even in the 70's, often fueled by teenage girls who were into David Cassidy and The Bay City Rollers and the like. It didn't do any bands any harm though to have a hit single. I might not even be a prog fan if I hadn't seen and heard ELP performing Fanfare For The Common Man and getting to No2 in the UK singles chart. The last real commercially sucessfull prog band was probably Radiohead and they had multiple hit singles in the 90's. After that the internet changed everything and all bets were off.
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Psychedelic Paul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 43232 |
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And I wouldn't have become a YES fan back in the 1980's if I hadn't heard Owner of a Lonely Heart played on the radio repeatedly.
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Jacob Schoolcraft ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 22 2021 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 1240 |
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Certain members of Genesis and Jonathan King have stated in the past that From Genesis To Revelation had similarities to the Bee Gees. Are there Genesis fans who agree with that I wonder?
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