Cocteau Twins vs. Dead Can Dance

Two bands that have definite similarities, particularly for me when comparing the early albums of each band with gothic rock qualities.

RYM labels Cocteau Twins generally as Dream Pop, Ethereal Wave, Post-Punk, Gothic Rock.
RYM labels Dead Can Dance generally as Neoclassical Darkwave, Darkwave, Tribal Ambient, Ethereal Wave, Gothic Rock, New Age

For the discography:

Cocteau Twins (studio albums):

Garlands (1982) Gothic Rock, Ethereal Wave, Post-Punk
Head Over Heels (1983) Ethereal Wave, Gothic Rock, Post-Punk (Dream Pop)
Treasure (1984) Dream Pop, Ethereal Wave
Victorialand (1986) Dream Pop, Ethereal Wave, Ambient Pop (Ambient)
The Moon and the Melodies (1986) Ambient, Dream Pop, Ethereal Wave*
Blue Bell Knoll (1988) Dream Pop, Ethereal Wave
Heaven or Las Vegas (1990) Dream Pop (Ethereal Wave, Shoegaze)
Four-Calendar Café (1993) Dream Pop (Ethereal Wave, Jangle Pop)
Mile & Kisses (1996) Dream Pop (Ethereal Wave)

* a Harold Budd, Elizabeth Fraser, Robin Guthrie & Simon Raymonde album

Dead Can Dance (studio albums):

Dead Can Dance (1984) Ethereal Wave, Darkwave, Gothic Rock (Post-Punk)
Spleen and Ideal (1985) Darkwave, Neoclassical Darkwave (Gothic Rock)
Within the Realm of a Dying Sun (1987) Neoclassical Darkwave
The Serpent's Egg (1998) Neoclassical Darkwave (White Voice)
Aion (1990) Neoclassical Darkwave, Neo-Medieval Folk (Medieval Classical Music, Renaissance Music, Gregorian Chant)
Into the Labyrinth (1993) Neoclassical Darkwave (Byzantine Music, Arabic Classical Music, Tribal Ambient)
Spiritchaser (1996) Tribal Ambient, New Age (African Folk Music)
Anastasis (2012) Neoclassical Darkwave (Turkish Folk Music, Greek Folk Music, Arabic Folk Music)
Dionysus (2018) Tribal Ambient, Neoclassical New Age (Turkish Folk Music, Balkan Folk Music, Persian Folk Music, Greek Folk Music)

I made a playlist with a favourite track of mine (alternating) for both band's first seven studio releases (including the Harold Budd and Cocteau Twins album) in case anyone wished to check out music from the bands without checking out full albums. I wasn't familiar with Spiritchaser. While Heaven or Las Vegas was the first Cocteau Twin album that I really fell for, and with Dead can Dance it was In the Realm of the Dying Sun, currently I'm more into earlier albums of each. I'd be more likely to play the first two by DCD and the first three by CT today.

Here's that playlist (happy for any to critique and or come up with your own -- easy to do if you have an account):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IZR8prIYPmrST9ll-GQ1Xh

Lewian wrote: For every poll comparing two bands there is one penalty point for each option beyond two. So you stand at five penalty points now.  My vote is for Dead Can Dance. I don't know that much of the Cocteau Twins but what I know could never win me over. DCD are great though.

Haha, the poll is just a silly accessory to comparing, appreciating and discussing these bands (I expect that including a poll for such topics is not a great strategy for discussion commonly, but I am still learning...). I think both Lisa Gerrard (DCD) and Elizabeth Fraser (CT) are excellent vocalists. I have learned not to surprise easily, but from what I thought I knew of your tastes, I would have thought that you could have been won over by Cocteau Twins quite easily (maybe you just don't know the right stuff for you -- I wonder if my choices in the past have put you off). To me the sounds of the two bands overlap significantly.

Edited by Logan - August 20 2023 at 17:34

Big fan of both: DCD moreso recently due to my involvement with PA; CTs immediately. (I bought their first three albums totally based on album cover art and the name of their record label.)

Love DCD, only really know CT from their singles but they never really did anything for me, should I explore further?

Lewian wrote: Logan wrote: Lewian wrote: For every poll comparing two bands there is one penalty point for each option beyond two. So you stand at five penalty points now.  My vote is for Dead Can Dance. I don't know that much of the Cocteau Twins but what I know could never win me over. DCD are great though. Haha, the poll is just a silly accessory to comparing, appreciating and discussing these bands (I expect that including a poll for such topics is not a great strategy for discussion commonly, but I am still learning...). I think both Lisa Gerrard (DCD) and Elizabeth Fraser (CT) are excellent vocalists. I have learned not to surprise easily, but from what I thought I knew of your tastes, I would have thought that you could have been won over by Cocteau Twins quite easily (maybe you just don't know the right stuff for you -- I wonder if my choices in the past have put you off). To me the sounds of the two bands overlap significantly. Yeah, you know what of my posting to take seriously and what rather not. I knew some Cocteau Twins before joining PA (and wasn't particularly keen), so it certainly wasn't you who put me off. It may well be that they have some stuff I'd like more, but then there's of course too much music too little time, so if a band doesn't win me over in a few attempts, I wouldn't normally invest more trying time into them. Music is irrational, magic and very individual, and sometimes two bands are seen as very similar by many and are similar according to lots of descriptors, and still for me just the way one of them sets up their melodies and sounds and the voice of the singer resonate a lot with me and the other one doesn't. I'm a scientist and have collaborated in musicology research, but I see no rational way explaining such things.

And I commonly will play the straight man (I am straight, but I mean something else) even when not taking things very seriously. I am glad you responded especially because I was not at all happy with my post but resisted changing it. Although you are going to get fairly different experiences from listening to, say, as the three albums that had the biggest impact on me, Head Over Heels, Treasure and Las Vegas (and certainly if you include the debut) it's not like there is nearly as much variety over those not many years as with, say, Swans over its career, or over its Holy Money to Soundtracks period. And it's the same singer in CT. I think even if you sample a bit from various of the albums you'd have a pretty good idea with Cocteau Twins. I don't know if you like early Dead Can Dance (say the first two albums) as much as later ones, but I especially get an early Cocteau Twins feel from those (goth, ethereal wave, post-punk, the female vocalists). I do see definite similarities with later music by both too. But as you say, even if bands can share similar attributes/ descriptors it does not mean that both will resonate with you. Can totally get one singer appealing and the other not.

I'm neither a scientist nor a musicologist, and while I am confident in the assumption that it is potentially knowable and understandable, and rational, that does not mean that we can explain such things in the same way that it is assumed that the universe is rational, knowable and understandable but that doesn't mean that we will every fully understand or know it (or "grok" it, a term I very much like from the novel Stranger in a Strange Land). I think I have a good handle on why I like certain things and not others generally (knowing my personality, following the associations), but I have been naval gazing since I had an umbilical cord. :)

BrufordFreak wrote: Big fan of both: DCD moreso recently due to my involvement with PA; CTs immediately. (I bought their first three albums totally based on album cover art and the name of their record label.) I can definitely see (and agree) with the pairing or the two bands as well as the comparisons. I'm always impressed with DCD; their evolution has been fascinating--over 40 years time!  Cocteau's, for me, rose quickly, peaked in the period of 1984-1989 and then kind of rode out on a blaze of glory in a niche they had created. Must give a bit of a shout out to Robin Guthrie for his continued solo output: especially 2006 when an LP and two EPs found me satisfying an itch for some new Treasure-era music. Tough vote because of DCD's wonderfully long and consistent career, but I can't think of much music I like more in history than that 1984-1989 period of Elizabeth Fraser, Robin Guthrie, and Simon Raymonde (and Harold).

Thanks, I'll have to check out the Robin Guthrie solo output (heard some of his music with Harold Budd before). For me the 1984-1988 period had been Dead Can Dance's primo period with the first four albums, but I have grown to like much more. For Cocteau Twins, I like the 1982 to 1990 period as I like the debut very much as well as Heaven or Las Vegas. While it is generally not as highly regarded as the follow-up Treasure, I really like 1983's Head Over Heels. It has an energy that I like, it's a little rawer, more punk. It has tracks like Gold Dust Rush and Musette and Drums that rock and also the more ethereal pieces. And it has a kind of experimentation and industrial qualities in a song like When Mama Was Moth. I think that is my favourite CT album at this time. I find it edgier than later work.



EDIT: Oh, speaking of collaborations, I really like Yann Tiersen with Elizabeth Fraser music (Kala having been one of my favourite songs she sung in particular).



Edited by Logan - August 21 2023 at 08:13