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Avenged Sevenfold for Prog Metal

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bardberic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2023 at 19:13
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

If you already rated it before submitting a review, unfortunately it won't show up as a new review. It's a weird situation, and I had to find out the hard way LOL Your best bet would be to ask one of the admins to delete your rating/review so you can resubmit it

I get it. Fine I'll have them do that later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2023 at 23:48
Just so everyone here knows, I was just about to propose Avenged Sevenfold to be re-evaluated for the Encyclopedia Metallum, because this album is undeniably metal. Say what you want about their previous albums, but this one is it.

https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=124600&p=3107762&hilit=avenged+sevenfold#p3107762

Someone beat me to it, however and it would seem that the admins of that site have proven themselves to be f**king idiots lmao What a joke. This is why I can't take that site seriously. They have flipping Rush, but not Avenged Sevenfold... this is baffling to me. I mean it's one thing to be an elitist and be right about whatever it is you're gatekeeping. But then there's just being wrong, like this.

Edited by bardberic - July 19 2023 at 23:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2023 at 23:52
Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Just so everyone here knows, I was just about to propose Avenged Sevenfold to be re-evaluated for the Encyclopedia Metallum, because this album is undeniably metal. Say what you want about their previous albums, but this one is it.

Someone beat me to it, however and it would seem that the admins of that site have proven themselves to be f**king idiots lmao What a joke. This is why I can't take that site seriously. They gave flipping Rush, but not Avenged Sevenfold... this is baffling to me. But I guess elitists are gonna elitist.

Dude, don't even bother. If BTBAM isn't going to make it to MA, Avenged never will either. I've already fought that battle and it was completely futile. That site is a complete joke LOL

From what I understand, there's a small group of admins who are really bitter about certain artists being requested on a daily basis, and they basically blacklisted them out of spite


Edited by Necrotica - July 19 2023 at 23:54
Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why oh why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life

https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 00:01
The bigger the site/forum, the more it invites dogmatic/tyrannical leadership, unfortunately. "Drunk with power" is what I see happening over and over ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 00:05
On a side note: if you guys wanna see how much clown sh*t goes on over at Metal Archives, check out this mega-thread I curated... I was able to compile some crazy stuff LOL 

Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why oh why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 00:07
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Just so everyone here knows, I was just about to propose Avenged Sevenfold to be re-evaluated for the Encyclopedia Metallum, because this album is undeniably metal. Say what you want about their previous albums, but this one is it.

Someone beat me to it, however and it would seem that the admins of that site have proven themselves to be f**king idiots lmao What a joke. This is why I can't take that site seriously. They gave flipping Rush, but not Avenged Sevenfold... this is baffling to me. But I guess elitists are gonna elitist.


Dude, don't even bother. If BTBAM isn't going to make it to MA, Avenged never will either. I've already fought that battle and it was completely futile. That site is a complete joke LOL

From what I understand, there's a small group of admins who are really bitter about certain artists being requested on a daily basis, and they basically blacklisted them out of spite



Obviously, yeah. But if they're priding themselves that much on arbitrating what is and is not metal, and they're so prickly about it, then at least don't have bands that nobody considers metal on the site. Rush and Thin Lizzy have no business on that site... even Black Sabbath is an issue if they're being do pedantic (and wrongfully so) about what counts as metal. I swear A7X could release a Morbid Angel-esque death metal album tomorrow, and they'll still call it "rock."

Sure, Tool and nu metal bands I can understand (frankly I wouldn't consider them bona fide "metal" per se), but the inconsistency is what makes them so hard to take seriously. But I'm just preaching to the choir at this point.

Edited by bardberic - July 20 2023 at 00:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 00:17
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

On a side note: if you guys wanna see how much clown sh*t goes on over at Metal Archives, check out this mega-thread I curated... I was able to compile some crazy stuff LOL 



I'm aware how batsh*t crazy they are. They banned me because I was like the 30th or so person to report the band Avatar from Sweden for being listed with the wrong genre. It turns out, they have like one or two reports a week regarding this band (let's be real, they're not flipping metalcore) and apparently they just got so fed up with the reports that they're deleting them as they come in, so we can't see how frequently their genre tag is being challenged, and banning the users for making the report. I got caught in the fire. Doesn't stop me from using a VPN to get past the IP block, but it's pathetic nonetheless.

A different account of mine got banned there another time for political reasons that I won't bring up here But I didn't do anything wrong, I swear. I've had that same discussion here with people on this site and nobody took issue with it. I guess the folk here are a tad bit more reasonable, I suppose.

Edited by bardberic - July 20 2023 at 00:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 00:42
^ That trend with banning people for differing opinions will only get worse, as these days society is changing from the 90s way ("we're all entitled to our own opinion") to "if you don't support the current thing (which we define), then you're cancelled".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 02:33
btw, IP bans are the stupidest, most moronic concept ever thunk up. Don't even get me started on why they don't work and only hurt "innocent" users. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 02:47
^ I've looked at metal-archives.com - not the best example of how you build a website in 2023, or even 2010. Might end up crawling it for new releases ... on the other hand, I already crawl MMA and there's too much irrelevant noise coming in. I understand where completionists are coming from, but seriously, who has the time to listen through so much crap? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 02:51
I mean from a UI point of view, for human users of the site at least, the MA is one of the best music databases on the internet. Gotta give credit where it's due. There's a reason why a site on which over two thirds or so (I'm just guessing) of the 100,000 or so artists on it are some short-lived garage black metal band that released a demo in the 80s or 90s and split up, yet one of the top 10 or so best selling metal bands in the world is rejected is the most popular metal database. It's because the site is super space efficient, fast and responsive, clean and easy to read, well organized, ergonomic and intuitive... I could go on. Props to the UI developer for a brilliant user experience. Shame it's being used for... well this...

Edited by bardberic - July 20 2023 at 02:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 04:17
^ I don't like it for several reasons, but I'm not using it everyday, so you're probably correct about the usability. One big usability problem for me would be that it's not mobile friendly / responsive. Wouldn't want to use it on my iPhone. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 13:01
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I don't like it for several reasons, but I'm not using it everyday, so you're probably correct about the usability. One big usability problem for me would be that it's not mobile friendly / responsive. Wouldn't want to use it on my iPhone. 

Absolutely it is not built for mobile devices - yes it's a bit harder to use on a phone, but I HATE this new era of mobile first. 99% of the time, mobile sites are cramped, crowded, and make me feel claustrophobic. Frankly, I'd rather use a desktop site on a phone than a mobile site a computer. I can't even use the new Reddit it's so bad.

To be fair, The Progarchives is not made with mobile devices in mind, yuet I find it works perfectly on my phone. But yes, the MA may be one of the few cases where some enhancements for mobile users may be nice. I was speaking purely from a computer point of view.

Also, the developers didn't really have database crawling in mind when creating the site. And that's a good thing. Do you know why Google searches have notoriously gone to sh*t over the past five years? It because every other site is trying to get a result on Google by making their content TOO easy to be crawled. It's flooded Google's result with crap.


Edited by bardberic - July 20 2023 at 13:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2023 at 13:18
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I've looked at metal-archives.com - not the best example of how you build a website in 2023, or even 2010. Might end up crawling it for new releases ... on the other hand, I already crawl MMA and there's too much irrelevant noise coming in. I understand where completionists are coming from, but seriously, who has the time to listen through so much crap? Wink


Please, Mike, don't create an MAbot for TYM... I'm already not a fan of the RYM and PA bots, and as I've discussed to death in other threads, the MA is the lowest bar there is when it comes to genre accuracy; they're even worse than Wikipedia, which is saying something. I mean they've rejected Avenged Sevenfold for not being a metal band (BS, we all know it), and have banned several users for challenging an incorrect genre tag of a band on their database, and thus they really can't be taken seriously - they're certainly not professional enough.

If there's one really good site to crawl, it's Musicbrainz. From my experience they're the most accurate and well-constructed music database that actually has good moderation. Although I know you don't like musicbrainz because you find it too complex to use. Honestly, none of the major metal databases are "crawl-worthy" in my opinion. For some reason, metalheads seem to not be very professional at running websites, and aren't exactly friendly enough to hold engaging dialogue. I suppose Metal Kingdom is the best of the bunch, but a huge chunk of that site is in Korean, and I STILL wouldn't call them totally accurate. The MMA is just not popular enough, which is a shame because it'd be the best if it had a larger user-base. Nevertheless, I'm just not a fan of the autobots to begin with; as you stated they're too noisy and I don't like how they can rate albums, which just echoes the consensus of a different community outside TYM (and RYM has notoriously bad taste). Imagine if another site decided to crawl TYM and their TYMbot rated albums, which used ratings from the TYM autobots. Remember in the other post how I stated that AI will begin to "inbreed?" Well here it is in hypothetical action.

Perhaps providing an MA link for the albums, like you have for Musicbrainz, currently, is a better idea so users can see the reviews from that site.


Edited by bardberic - July 20 2023 at 13:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2023 at 00:35
Also:

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Edit: lmao you also beat me to the review. Here I am outlining a brand new review when you already had one written five years ago LOL Eh, I'll publish mine tomorrow. I need a break from my computer for a bit Wink

Yep. I was ahead of the curve when regarding A7X as a progressive band, and I'll happily accept those flowers LOL

Seriously though, I was waiting for an excuse to post that review on PA, and I'm glad that the proginess of LIBAD was able to facilitate that Smile


Edited by Necrotica - July 21 2023 at 00:39
Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why oh why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life

https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2023 at 01:28
Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I've looked at metal-archives.com - not the best example of how you build a website in 2023, or even 2010. Might end up crawling it for new releases ... on the other hand, I already crawl MMA and there's too much irrelevant noise coming in. I understand where completionists are coming from, but seriously, who has the time to listen through so much crap? Wink


Please, Mike, don't create an MAbot for TYM... I'm already not a fan of the RYM and PA bots, and as I've discussed to death in other threads, the MA is the lowest bar there is when it comes to genre accuracy; they're even worse than Wikipedia, which is saying something. I mean they've rejected Avenged Sevenfold for not being a metal band (BS, we all know it), and have banned several users for challenging an incorrect genre tag of a band on their database, and thus they really can't be taken seriously - they're certainly not professional enough.


I beg to differ - the lowest bar for genre accuracy is metacritic.com. It seems like they are using the record-store type genre assignments from decades ago. You know, you would go to a record store, and most of the music you liked would be in the "Pop/Rock" section, even death metal and avant stuff. Example: https://www.metacritic.com/music/o-monolith/squid is even referred to as "post-punk" in the description, but the genre is still "Pop/Rock".

I only considered crawling MA to pick up new releases, but as I said above, by crawling MMA there's already more than enough metal releases in the pipeline.

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

If there's one really good site to crawl, it's Musicbrainz. From my experience they're the most accurate and well-constructed music database that actually has good moderation. Although I know you don't like musicbrainz because you find it too complex to use. Honestly, none of the major metal databases are "crawl-worthy" in my opinion. For some reason, metalheads seem to not be very professional at running websites, and aren't exactly friendly enough to hold engaging dialogue. I suppose Metal Kingdom is the best of the bunch, but a huge chunk of that site is in Korean, and I STILL wouldn't call them totally accurate. The MMA is just not popular enough, which is a shame because it'd be the best if it had a larger user-base.

MB is a really cool site because they have an API, so there is no need to "crawl" the websites. Are they reliable when it comes to genres though? For new releases, the problem with MB is that there is a lot of noise coming in, like stuff that's not even proper releases. They are great for looking up info on old releases, like cover art or tracklists. Discogs is even better, but they don't have an API ...

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

 Nevertheless, I'm just not a fan of the autobots to begin with; as you stated they're too noisy and I don't like how they can rate albums, which just echoes the consensus of a different community outside TYM (and RYM has notoriously bad taste). Imagine if another site decided to crawl TYM and their TYMbot rated albums, which used ratings from the TYM autobots. Remember in the other post how I stated that AI will begin to "inbreed?" Well here it is in hypothetical action.

Perhaps providing an MA link for the albums, like you have for Musicbrainz, currently, is a better idea so users can see the reviews from that site.

I know what you mean, but the bot tags and ratings do not carry much weight. I will soon reduce the trust rank of these bots to 2, so their input weighs only half as much as that of a normal user. And even if an album has 10k ratings at RYM, that will have no bearing on the TYM result. The bot input is only meant as a seed, to provide some means to sort the releases. There's already more than 1k releases of 2023, you can't listen to all of them in order to find out which are the best ...

But yes, one other aspect of the bots is the linking to the external sites. I may very well end up only doing that for MA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2023 at 23:09
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Also:

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Edit: lmao you also beat me to the review. Here I am outlining a brand new review when you already had one written five years ago LOL Eh, I'll publish mine tomorrow. I need a break from my computer for a bit Wink

Yep. I was ahead of the curve when regarding A7X as a progressive band, and I'll happily accept those flowers LOL

Seriously though, I was waiting for an excuse to post that review on PA, and I'm glad that the proginess of LIBAD was able to facilitate that Smile

Well I've always considered A7X as progressive, ever since I first heard them in 2012 as a 14 y/o before I even understood prog was (so I'm regarding them as such retrospectively) :) At this point, when I purchased Nightmare in 2012, Save Me was the longest song I had in my iTunes library, and the first song I owned that breaches the ten minute mark, it was also really what sparked my interest in transitioning from rock to metal, and into prog territory as well.

In fact, this band is what got me into prog in the first place. I've told this story numerous times here. In January 2017, I started university and decided to get a turn table (because that's what 19 y/os do I guess), and at the record store, I found The Stage (which I didn't even know they released) and blindly got it. For the previous few weeks in my dorm, one of my neighbors introduced me to prog via Rush and Yes (he had bith their entire catalogues on vinyl), and when I played The Stage, I was like "wait, these guys are prog af, no wonder I liked them so much five years ago." So yeah, aside from Kansas, which I had casually listened to for about six years prior to this, The Stage was my first progressive metal album, and thus my first foray into the world of prog.

If you read the arguments a few pages back, you'll see that had the band been rejected for prog metal proper, my main argument for their inclusion in prog related is that they've always acted as an introductory band into the prog realm, and they have a notoriously large fanbase who would later become Dream Theater fans, so in this regard they're highly influential in progressive metal because of their accessibility - and if you read my LibaD review, you'll see that I highlight HOW they're accessible, yet progressive, which is hard to balance. In short, the band may not be the BEST nor most progressive prog band, but they're a strong starting point for the realm of prog.


Edited by bardberic - July 21 2023 at 23:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bardberic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2023 at 00:18
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I've looked at metal-archives.com - not the best example of how you build a website in 2023, or even 2010. Might end up crawling it for new releases ... on the other hand, I already crawl MMA and there's too much irrelevant noise coming in. I understand where completionists are coming from, but seriously, who has the time to listen through so much crap? Wink


Please, Mike, don't create an MAbot for TYM... I'm already not a fan of the RYM and PA bots, and as I've discussed to death in other threads, the MA is the lowest bar there is when it comes to genre accuracy; they're even worse than Wikipedia, which is saying something. I mean they've rejected Avenged Sevenfold for not being a metal band (BS, we all know it), and have banned several users for challenging an incorrect genre tag of a band on their database, and thus they really can't be taken seriously - they're certainly not professional enough.


I beg to differ - the lowest bar for genre accuracy is metacritic.com. It seems like they are using the record-store type genre assignments from decades ago. You know, you would go to a record store, and most of the music you liked would be in the "Pop/Rock" section, even death metal and avant stuff. Example: https://www.metacritic.com/music/o-monolith/squid is even referred to as "post-punk" in the description, but the genre is still "Pop/Rock".

I only considered crawling MA to pick up new releases, but as I said above, by crawling MMA there's already more than enough metal releases in the pipeline.

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

If there's one really good site to crawl, it's Musicbrainz. From my experience they're the most accurate and well-constructed music database that actually has good moderation. Although I know you don't like musicbrainz because you find it too complex to use. Honestly, none of the major metal databases are "crawl-worthy" in my opinion. For some reason, metalheads seem to not be very professional at running websites, and aren't exactly friendly enough to hold engaging dialogue. I suppose Metal Kingdom is the best of the bunch, but a huge chunk of that site is in Korean, and I STILL wouldn't call them totally accurate. The MMA is just not popular enough, which is a shame because it'd be the best if it had a larger user-base.

MB is a really cool site because they have an API, so there is no need to "crawl" the websites. Are they reliable when it comes to genres though? For new releases, the problem with MB is that there is a lot of noise coming in, like stuff that's not even proper releases. They are great for looking up info on old releases, like cover art or tracklists. Discogs is even better, but they don't have an API ...

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

 Nevertheless, I'm just not a fan of the autobots to begin with; as you stated they're too noisy and I don't like how they can rate albums, which just echoes the consensus of a different community outside TYM (and RYM has notoriously bad taste). Imagine if another site decided to crawl TYM and their TYMbot rated albums, which used ratings from the TYM autobots. Remember in the other post how I stated that AI will begin to "inbreed?" Well here it is in hypothetical action.

Perhaps providing an MA link for the albums, like you have for Musicbrainz, currently, is a better idea so users can see the reviews from that site.

I know what you mean, but the bot tags and ratings do not carry much weight. I will soon reduce the trust rank of these bots to 2, so their input weighs only half as much as that of a normal user. And even if an album has 10k ratings at RYM, that will have no bearing on the TYM result. The bot input is only meant as a seed, to provide some means to sort the releases. There's already more than 1k releases of 2023, you can't listen to all of them in order to find out which are the best ...

But yes, one other aspect of the bots is the linking to the external sites. I may very well end up only doing that for MA.

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I've looked at metal-archives.com - not the best example of how you build a website in 2023, or even 2010. Might end up crawling it for new releases ... on the other hand, I already crawl MMA and there's too much irrelevant noise coming in. I understand where completionists are coming from, but seriously, who has the time to listen through so much crap? Wink
 

Please, Mike, don't create an MAbot for TYM... I'm already not a fan of the RYM and PA bots, and as I've discussed to death in other threads, the MA is the lowest bar there is when it comes to genre accuracy; they're even worse than Wikipedia, which is saying something. I mean they've rejected Avenged Sevenfold for not being a metal band (BS, we all know it), and have banned several users for challenging an incorrect genre tag of a band on their database, and thus they really can't be taken seriously - they're certainly not professional enough. 


I beg to differ - the lowest bar for genre accuracy is metacritic.com. It seems like they are using the record-store type genre assignments from decades ago. You know, you would go to a record store, and most of the music you liked would be in the "Pop/Rock" section, even death metal and avant stuff. Example: https://www.metacritic.com/music/o-monolith/squid is even referred to as "post-punk" in the description, but the genre is still "Pop/Rock".

I only considered crawling MA to pick up new releases, but as I said above, by crawling MMA there's already more than enough metal releases in the pipeline.

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

If there's one really good site to crawl, it's Musicbrainz. From my experience they're the most accurate and well-constructed music database that actually has good moderation. Although I know you don't like musicbrainz because you find it too complex to use. Honestly, none of the major metal databases are "crawl-worthy" in my opinion. For some reason, metalheads seem to not be very professional at running websites, and aren't exactly friendly enough to hold engaging dialogue. I suppose Metal Kingdom is the best of the bunch, but a huge chunk of that site is in Korean, and I STILL wouldn't call them totally accurate. The MMA is just not popular enough, which is a shame because it'd be the best if it had a larger user-base.

MB is a really cool site because they have an API, so there is no need to "crawl" the websites. Are they reliable when it comes to genres though? For new releases, the problem with MB is that there is a lot of noise coming in, like stuff that's not even proper releases. They are great for looking up info on old releases, like cover art or tracklists. Discogs is even better, but they don't have an API ...

Originally posted by bardberic bardberic wrote:

 Nevertheless, I'm just not a fan of the autobots to begin with; as you stated they're too noisy and I don't like how they can rate albums, which just echoes the consensus of a different community outside TYM (and RYM has notoriously bad taste). Imagine if another site decided to crawl TYM and their TYMbot rated albums, which used ratings from the TYM autobots. Remember in the other post how I stated that AI will begin to "inbreed?" Well here it is in hypothetical action.

Perhaps providing an MA link for the albums, like you have for Musicbrainz, currently, is a better idea so users can see the reviews from that site. 

I know what you mean, but the bot tags and ratings do not carry much weight. I will soon reduce the trust rank of these bots to 2, so their input weighs only half as much as that of a normal user. And even if an album has 10k ratings at RYM, that will have no bearing on the TYM result. The bot input is only meant as a seed, to provide some means to sort the releases. There's already more than 1k releases of 2023, you can't listen to all of them in order to find out which are the best ...

But yes, one other aspect of the bots is the linking to the external sites. I may very well end up only doing that for MA.

Well metacritic is a ratings aggregator, not a music database nor encyclopedia, so they're not as concerned with the pedantic aspect of things like genre arbitration. Allmusic does the same thing, but this is just do to limitations on the site. I meant they're the bottom of the barrel for sites that actually arbitrate genres. Bad to be fair, metal music is a form of popular music, and thus could theoretically fall under pop/rock if the limitations requires it to. The same goes for "Post-punk," which is also a form of popular music. It's not as much of a stretch as say calling Avatar nu metal which is just plain false. The problem with the MA is that their admins are, for lack of polite terms, stuck up, elitist morons who put their own ego ahead of accuracy. I think you're better off taking all metal bands "pop/rock," which isn't really too much of a stretch, if you view "pop/rock" as "popular music," in general, then misclassifying bands with incorrect subgenres because your head is so far up your ass you can't see right. In other words, precision (the subgenres themselves) isn't as important in my opinion as accuracy (the proper genres and subgenres). Sure, Allmusic lacks precision, but at least it's accurate.

I don't know how records stores in Sweden work, but I suppose since metal is considerably more mainstream there than it is in the United States and Israel, it may not be problematic to consider it "pop/rock." Every record store I've visited in the US and Israel have a "Pop" section, and either a "Metal" section, a "Rock" section, and a "Punk" section, or a traditional "Rock" section, an "Alternative and Punk Rock" section and a "Hardcore Punk and Metal" section, as well as other relevant genres classifications. And in the case of my local store in the Pennsylvania, they have a" Death Metal," which they just use for all extreme metal (such as black metal, too).

Yes MB is completely open source, free, and non-profit. That is what makes it so great. I've been using the site for years, and I genuinely find it to be the highest caliber in almost every regard. I don't really know what you mean by "noise." What do you mean by "not proper releases?" A music database should archive everything an artist has released - it seems pointless to pick and choose certain releases for archival. The point of Musicbrainz is to get accurate information in the releases so you can tag them in your personal music library. RYM is a larger music database then Musicbrainz, so I can't imagine you getting fewer "irrelevant" releases from there. This is also why I'm not a huge fan of the autotagger bots, unless you want a comprehensive archival of an artist's discography, as tagged per other people's opinions.

MusicBrainz, is accurate, and if anything, is TOO precise. You're able to tag any releases with anything you want. Oriental Metal, for instance, is not an accepted genre tag on the site, but I can still tag a release as such, and it would fall under other tags. If you click any tag on any release, it'll give you a comprehensive list of all other releases that share that same tag. For instance, here's the album "Folium Limina" by The Otolith. At the present moment, I'm the only one who's rated the album and assigned tags to it. If also added the CD version to the release page and uploaded the album art (and since it was within the last few days, it's highlighted right now): https://musicbrainz.org/release-group/2e4e764d-2528-485c-828b-df3f695f6855

You can see here the strengths and weaknesses of this system in which all tags are accepted. Users can vote on tags, and if a tag reaches 0, it will not longer be visible nor show up on the list with all the items with that tag. For instance, the tag "Chamber Doom" is pretty much a term I invented and am using to describe the album. I have only used it on this album, thus far, which is why it is the only album tagged with it, however there are other artists I think belong in this category, such as IVAN from Australia (which I haven't tagged as such yet because I don't have anything from him yet in my collection). Symphonic Metal is also rather contentious, since it's a far deviation from symphonic metal in general, but I've seen other people describe this album as such. So if someone disagrees with this tag, then they could simply downvote it and it would disappear. But if someone else upvotes it again, it will reappear.

For descriptor tags, such as musical attributes and location, which all go under other tags, as well, I always tag the artist, rather than the album, as such... I don't know I started it like that, but I did. You can view everything I tagged The Otolith as here: https://musicbrainz.org/artist/b13eb082-4d15-4ec0-a944-04543c678a2d

Another limitation is that some descriptors, like "orchestral" are considered genres, so I couldn't tag this album with orchestral, which is good descriptor, but since it's not the orchestral genre, it wouldn't make sense.

If you click "see all tags," and then "show all tags" you'll see that someone else voted Stoner Metal, which I downvoted and is now 0, hence why it doesn't show up on the main page.

There are a lot of irrelevant tags tags such as "pop/rock" on a lot of metal artists, but that's just what happens when normies are given access to use any yags that they want. I still find MB to be better than Discogs in tagging, as I often disagree with Discogs, but not as much on Music Brainz. Honestly, MB was pretty much invented for this purpose of crawling and tag completion. It's a match made in heaven for TYM, in my opinion. Hence why they have API. It's a shame that so free people use it, but that's also what makes it so good (it's very lowkey and chill there - notice a pattern with my feelings towards larger vs. smaller sites? - as you stated the larger sites are tyrannical). It's definitely better for older releases, but some of the more popular modern acts on the site are still tagged  

When crawling, you're better off gathering information from the "release groups" rather than the the "releases" themselves, as this would give more precise information for the taggers. There's a learning curve, but it's so worth it. If I were to create my own RYM-clone, I'd use Musicbrainz as my baseline database from which to draw information. 


Edited by bardberic - July 22 2023 at 00:38
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