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Is Yes really Yes anymore?

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Poll Question: Do you consider the current lineup of Yes to really be Yes?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
17 [20.99%]
53 [65.43%]
11 [13.58%]
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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2021 at 18:04
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I find this thread sad ... really sad.

We don't go around saying that Stravinsky is not Stravinsky anymore, and Mozart is not Mozart anymore.

YES, was for a time a "composer" that put together many wonderful things that many of us loved. Since then, its productivity has not stopped, although we think that their work has suffered. We don't go around saying that Picasso was crap in the last years of his artistic career, or Stravinsky!

I'm OK with folks saying that YES had its best a while back, but I find it sad that it is being so thrashed senseless.

It makes the music of a composer, or band, trivial. And to me, PROGRESSIVE is not trivial or stupid or a waste of time. It is what it is, and today it is not the same as yesterday with different folks ... and the last chapter of the book is still not written!

Well, if Stravinsky gave up composing and turned over the business to his cousin Squiggy Stravinsky, I would say Stravinsky -- Igor Stravinsky -- is not Stravinsky anymore.  And if Mozart sold his naming rights to a Viennese music conglomerate ran by some guy named Hans Schnitzelbach, Hans may be able to play piano, but he ain't Mozart, even if he's selling Mozart t-shirts at the next concert in Salzburg.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2021 at 23:14
Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:

I thought "Touch & Go" by ELP was playing when I first hit play in that new song lol.

Yes is one of my favorite bands ever, but I haven't paid much attention to their latest material and I've even lost track of who is in the band anymore.

But since the name thing has been debated, what happens if Anderson and Wakeman want to release music under the Yes name? Why are Howe and White the ones that have the name and not them? Who decides who can use the name? 

I remember when Anderson, Wakeman, Howe and Brufford who were basically the full classic lineup without Squire had to release it under a different name and couldn't use "Yes".


Well, Anderson and Wakeman were working as Yes featuring AWR or something like that, and they were supposed to release an album too... but then, suddenly, they were no more, and that was all them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2021 at 02:09
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I find this thread sad ... really sad.

We don't go around saying that Stravinsky is not Stravinsky anymore, and Mozart is not Mozart anymore.

YES, was for a time a "composer" that put together many wonderful things that many of us loved. Since then, its productivity has not stopped, although we think that their work has suffered. We don't go around saying that Picasso was crap in the last years of his artistic career, or Stravinsky!

I'm OK with folks saying that YES had its best a while back, but I find it sad that it is being so thrashed senseless.

It makes the music of a composer, or band, trivial. And to me, PROGRESSIVE is not trivial or stupid or a waste of time. It is what it is, and today it is not the same as yesterday with different folks ... and the last chapter of the book is still not written!

How are you equating a band to a composer? Is this like the "corporations are people too" philosophy? 

No one's saying Yes isn't Yes anymore just because they don't like the music they're putting out anymore. U2 have been regressing and muddying up their musical legacy for years, but it's still the same four guys who made The Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, War, and all their other classic albums.  Those four guys together are U2, and no one debates whether or not they should call themselves U2 anymore even though they've barely had a fresh idea in 24 years. The reason people are arguing that Yes isn't Yes anymore, and why I felt it was in question enough to start this thread, comes down to membership. Look at the current lineup. It isn't just no original members, it's barely any classic members, especially when you consider Alan White is being supplemented by some other guy because he can't play much anymore. The only guy who's both fully active in the band and with any decent claim to the Yes name is Steve Howe, the rest of them are either poor replacements of iconic members or have a merely tangential history with the band's classic era. 

I'm not saying bands can't change. Certainly change is one of the things that made Yes' classic period so enthralling. But that was decades ago, and back then there was always the consistent through line of Squire and (almost always) Anderson. If Steve Howe walked up to a group of five random, decent, studio musicians and sold them the rights to the name Yes, and then they went around playing classic Yes songs and recording new music with that name, would that still be Yes? To me it wouldn't. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, and I think with the passing of Squire and the minimal involvement of White the line has been crossed.

 If you disagree, that's totally fine. They own the rights to the name anyway, so in practice you'd be right! However, your argument isn't relevant, because the reason Yes' current authenticity is being debated is not centered on the quality of their music. 
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2021 at 03:29
I've finally made my mind up and voted Yes. Surely many long standing bands have less continuity than one can see in the present lineup? The tendency of some to dissociate newer material they don't like much from the band that they love for the old stuff by even saying "it's not the same band anymore" doesn't look right to me. You can say for you Anderson and Squire are essential to the band without denying the current bunch the right to use the name. It's not like Renaissance Mk II vs Renaissance Mk I is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2021 at 07:29
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

...
 Look at the current lineup. It isn't just no original members, it's barely any classic members, especially when you consider Alan White is being supplemented by some other guy because he can't play much anymore. The only guy who's both fully active in the band and with any decent claim to the Yes name is Steve Howe, the rest of them are either poor replacements of iconic members or have a merely tangential history with the band's classic era. 
...

Hi,

I think we're comparing things too much to something that we "liked" and now, we think that any different lineup is not gonna make it better or more interesting for a newer/younger audience.

This reeks of the age of rock music, where we can not appreciate things in a different way later. Gads, you really think that Isaac Stern did not play Mozart well? Or that Yehudi Menuhin also did not do Mozart, right?

There is no "right" or "wrong". Music is open to INTERPRETATION and you are not allowing a new/different generation to show their own ability and talents. It doesn't matter to me if Steve or Alan are not playing anymore, or a lot less ... and what matters to me is if the quality of the music stands up to the previous work, and shines, and everyone's idea is that it can't possibly happen, and we haven't even heard the new thing yet, have we?

Honestly, I hope that it is just as good, or better when compared to the older material, but the rock fans can not live with that idea, and will continue trashing it because AW is not there, or CS or RW, or JA ... so what? 100 years from now they won't be either, but you are saying that CTTE can't possibly sound good without the main guys, and that is sad and faulty!

All it states to me, is that one has a bunch of personal favorites, and that "one" won't let go of them, in any way shape or form. The whole idea is so rock fan oriented and sometimes boring and sick, as to end up hurting the music all around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2021 at 08:46
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

and we haven't even heard the new thing yet, have we?


Well, we've heard one track from it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2021 at 13:39
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

...
 Look at the current lineup. It isn't just no original members, it's barely any classic members, especially when you consider Alan White is being supplemented by some other guy because he can't play much anymore. The only guy who's both fully active in the band and with any decent claim to the Yes name is Steve Howe, the rest of them are either poor replacements of iconic members or have a merely tangential history with the band's classic era. 
...

Hi,

I think we're comparing things too much to something that we "liked" and now, we think that any different lineup is not gonna make it better or more interesting for a newer/younger audience.

This reeks of the age of rock music, where we can not appreciate things in a different way later. Gads, you really think that Isaac Stern did not play Mozart well? Or that Yehudi Menuhin also did not do Mozart, right?

There is no "right" or "wrong". Music is open to INTERPRETATION and you are not allowing a new/different generation to show their own ability and talents. It doesn't matter to me if Steve or Alan are not playing anymore, or a lot less ... and what matters to me is if the quality of the music stands up to the previous work, and shines, and everyone's idea is that it can't possibly happen, and we haven't even heard the new thing yet, have we?

Honestly, I hope that it is just as good, or better when compared to the older material, but the rock fans can not live with that idea, and will continue trashing it because AW is not there, or CS or RW, or JA ... so what? 100 years from now they won't be either, but you are saying that CTTE can't possibly sound good without the main guys, and that is sad and faulty!

All it states to me, is that one has a bunch of personal favorites, and that "one" won't let go of them, in any way shape or form. The whole idea is so rock fan oriented and sometimes boring and sick, as to end up hurting the music all around.

No one's saying Steve Howe and the rest of what is now Yes shouldn't go around playing classic Yes songs or making new music. They're musicians, and that's the catalogue they like to play from. They have the right to do it and enough history with the band to draw people's interest. The question on the table isn't whether or not they're any good, whether or not they should be playing, nor certainly whether or not Isaac Stern does a good job with Mozart's music. Side note -- I'm still not getting why you're bringing 18th century European composers into this discussion about a 20th and 21st century progressive rock band. Yes, they are a rock band and of course will be treated as such by rock fans. Yes is not a composer, it's a band. They play drums and guitars and use distortion and amplifiers and draw from the well of rock and roll. No, the question on the table isn't about their musical merits, it's about the lineup and the philosophical rights to the band name. Just like it would be silly to say that an Elvis impersonator is really truly Elvis, no matter how good of an impersonation they can pull off, it seems silly to many people here to say this lineup really deserves to call itself Yes. They aught to go by some other name, because that's what they are, some other band. Related to Yes, good at playing Yes songs, good at writing music in the style of Yes, but not the real thing.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2021 at 14:23
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... and what matters to me is if the quality of the music stands up to the previous work, and shines, and everyone's idea is that it can't possibly happen, and we haven't even heard the new thing yet, have we?

This is probably what's it all about: does the quality of the music stand up to the previous work? Since two decades it doesn't (imo), so expectations aren't high. This has nothing to do with composers or artistry, but all about fans preferences and what the band has delivered lately. Our (PA's community) preferences clearly don't influence the band, otherwise they would have called it quits. But they continue and they have every damned right to do so. But that doesn't mean they put out good music and that they meet "Yes Standards" (and that is for every fan to determine - it remains something very subjective).

For me, nowadays Yes has nothing to do anymore with the Yes I like and admire: creativity, innovation, originality have left the band. Is it due to the fact that some core members left? Maybe. Is it because after 50 years creativity of the remaining members dried up? Maybe. Fortunately, Yes music will live on - we have an example here. Fact is, for me, what is currently called Yes is not the band I admire. Far from it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lieutenant_Lan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2021 at 08:29
There more like a maybe now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2021 at 08:35
Originally posted by Lieutenant_Lan Lieutenant_Lan wrote:

There more like a maybe now.
that was awesome! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 07:39
brutal  bump! Evil Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 08:04
Originally posted by Lieutenant_Lan Lieutenant_Lan wrote:

There more like a maybe now.


For me they are definitely a HELL F.U.CKING NOOOOOOOOO

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mellotronwave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 09:30
definitly NO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 15:25
But you guys will still probaby buy the new album. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 15:54
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

But you guys will still probaby buy the new album. Smile


There are so many brilliant artists out these days that i can't even keep up so i can safely say i won't even be listening to the new album unless i want to write a negative review :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rottenprogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 16:08
I expect the PA review consensus to be no more than three stars and that's being generous. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 16:20
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

But you guys will still probaby buy the new album. Smile

Buy it? I can listen to it some place on the internet. Smile I very much doubt I will have the desire to buy it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2023 at 04:35
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

But you guys will still probaby buy the new album. Smile


Probably not, based on the two tracks I've heard so far. But I will listen to it and decide then...
I made the mistake to buy Heaven and Earth without listening beforehand. I gave it a way later, because this is not how I want to be reminded of my favourite band...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2023 at 05:29
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

But you guys will still probaby buy the new album. Smile


Not me. With all sorts of good stuff out there and the easy accessibility to stream and previewing music, I would rather purchase and support music from lesser known artists whose music I like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2023 at 08:38
I don’t Yes
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