Prog Goes New Wave

richardh wrote: 'New Wave' was just any new bands that came out post punk so the idea of 'prog goes new wave' is impossible. ...

Hi,

My thoughts are that "New Wave" an idea, rather than a reality. Progressive/Prog had already established itself by its very high individuality, which the New Wave folks did not like ... the sort of thing that suggests "ego" up front ... as if you didn't see that in the stores and in the cheap music and the fake hip dresses a few years later.

I do think, in a weird sort of way, that prog has gone "new wave" in terms that it has become a bit of a joke and not real ... individuality nowadays means a guitarist in DT going on by himself, and the band is secondary ... and while that is something that was a point for the "progressive" folks, it is not how the "progressive" folks like to describe themselves. It's difficult to not think of Steve Howe going nuts on "Relayer" and then we not wanting to compare it to these days what DT has done in the past 5/10 years.

It hasn't gone "new wave" and never did, but it did go ... pop ... more pop ... phd pop! Besides "new wave" is just a word for folks that don't like music anyway!

richardh wrote: ... What about Hawkwind? I'm not a fan particularly except of Quark Strangeness and Charm which felt like it could easily have come out in 1980-1983 rather than 1977. ...

By the time of QSC I'm not sure that Hawkwind, had given up on the big trips. It was thought that Dave Brock was having problems with the inconsistent drumming, and seeing Ginger Baker show up for a fun show, was interesting, but it made that album much better, even though it still was no longer a trip band, just a song band, although the songs were not exactly just 3 minutes. I've had the thought that if they had tripped out to 15/20 minutes, that GB might have enjoyed it more, but instead he went on to say "the worst little r&r band in the world" ... which was kinda sad. I don't think of Hawkwind as that bad, I tend to reserve that to many punk bands and another handful, but the point was that it was just songs, and I think that GB was more interested in something else than just songs!

I like the Hawkwind trip band, and when they did "The Electric Tepee" and then "It Is The Business ... " thier "trip" was back, but it had taken on a more ambient form, (specially "Business"), though TET was a massive hard rocker, more along the lines of what we used to call "acid rock" ... which, surprisingly enough not many Hawkwind folks like these two albums ... they are excellent, and for my thoughts, they are the last two great albums by Hawkwind ... after that, just too many redos and not enough value for the work in my book ... I really think that not having Nik, or Calvert around made a huge difference as they were both more literate and educated in order to help make the band more creative and experimental, something they lost altogether.

I, personally, do not like the idea, or thoughts that "prog went new wave" ... basically it went along with all the commercial activity, which we should have expected to continue and maintain some control over a lot of the music, until the 90's when independent moves changed the scenery, along with the Internet.

Nowadays, for my tastes, even though I dislike the expression, prog is almost all new wave in that it has very little, if anything new ... and these folks still have not figured out that the same old setup is tired and new adventures need to be undertaken, but most musicians at 20 these days, only have an elementary education about music, and the likelihood that they might see a bigger picture, where they could place themselves, is not likely to happen ... too involved with the idea that they must be liked by their fans and such so they can sell ... you really think that original progressive bands sat around and thought about their fans? ... NO ... they went and studied and developed their music instead, which most progressive applying bands these days are not capable of doing. I kinda, sorta, have this idea that the next progressive experience will not have a drummer with a snare drum, or a screaming guitar, and that instead we're gong to hear a duet between a flute and a violin, that would rival some stuff that we have heard before ... to be "progressive", the band has to change/challenge the ideas that time has provided ... and it has been so for many years in the history of music, except rock music, that continues living in the past ... where everything that can be done, has already been done!!! (Per Ian, btw, on the Rick Wakeman special)

siLLy puPPy wrote: New Wave is one of those fuzzy nebulous terms many will never fully agree on.

That's because there is no such style--  It was just a name given to a period that didn't have a generic term.  

Peter Gabriel's So is not New Wave or rock or Pop.   It is it's own genre.

Peter Gabriel's So is a fantastic new wave album. It has all the sophistication of stuff from early Genesis to the more poppy sounds of the times. Highly recommend.

^ i totally agree that Eno was a precursor to new wave as was Bowie and all those bands like the Stooges that are now considered proto-punk however i never thought of him as new wave himself because new wave refers to a branch of punk rock that took a more melodic route somewhere around 1977 at the earliest.

The term also refers to a period of time that featured a range of genres ranging from synthpop and power pop to pub rock, 2 Tone, ska, progressive pop and new romantic. Since Bowie had albums like Let's Dance come out during that era he does qualify but Eno's albums from that era were pretty much limited to ambient and electronic.

New Wave is one of those fuzzy nebulous terms many will never fully agree on.

so Captain Beefheart laid the groundwork for post-punk before even punk existed?! 

I get it Roxy Music and Bowie were an influence on new wave and 80s music in general, but Brian Eno solo?! Can you give me an example. Eno was one of the creators for electronic music/ambient but new-wave? I don't know