Roger Waters

Edited by David_D - March 22 2023 at 14:49

I think Roger Waters is a pathetic hypocritical wiener and his boycot is well-deserved. I also don't wish to voice much of an opinion on the Israel-Palestine conflict here as it'll just get me into hot water and I'd never claim to be better informed on the matter than the people here who have actually visited the region, but I do feel obliged to point out that in a general sense, I think it's very unfair to frame a boycot of a certain country as automatically being a condemnation of every citizen of that country, let alone of an ethnicity. I don't think a boycot of Israel is in and of itself any more antisemitic than the widespread boycots of Russia in the wake of the Ukraine invasion are Russophobic or a boycot of the PRC over the actions of that country's government in Hong Kong or East Turkestan is Sinophobic; it's simply a matter of acknowledging that engaging in business activities with or within the borders of the country in question will contribute to tax money ending up in the hands of a government that in your eyes does deplorable things.

David_D wrote: I do support the Palestinians in the conflict, not the extremists though, neither a boycot of a whole country, and yet,  I don't consider myself to be antisemitic, and I have even some family living in Israel.

Edited by David_D - March 22 2023 at 04:00

A reminder of the forum guidlines/rules: https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13083

2. No Personal attacks (flaming or trolling). Keep it civil, show respect at all times for your fellow members. Disagreement, debate, even "heated" discussion is fine (though emoticons should be used to "soften" the effect of words). However, personally directed insults, denigration, etc. will not be tolerated, and will be grounds for warning and, if not stopped immediately, ejection. This applies equally to forum posts AND private messages. "Group-directed" insults and denigration (e.g., racism, sexism, ageism, etc.) also fall under this category, any such behavior will be taken on a case by case basis. Any member who engages in continuous baiting, borderline insults, or other continuously "aggressive" behaviour will be warned.

Be polite to everyone, respect their right to their opinions, even if you disagree with what they say. Bear in mind that anything you post can be read not just by the person you are addressing it to, but by everyone visiting the site, including non-members. Be constructive, and stay "on topic". Do not make your posts deliberately inflammatory. You are far more likely to encourage a thoughtful discussion if the wording of your post is constructive.

It's understandable that people get emotional about these topics, but attack the argument not the person, and try to be civil and follow the principle of charity as I was taught in Philosophy 101, which "requires interpreting a speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation." It helps to make your counter-arguments more robust.

If civility proves too challenging, then I will close this thread. Fine to disagree, just don't use insulting, denigrating language when you do.


Edited by Logan - March 21 2023 at 20:41

Still nothing that refutes the fact that there are many western jews who are pro-palestine. I don't know why that's so hard for you to accept.

I'm simply pointing out that my statement is easily backed up by just googling how (e.g.) American jews feel about this. You'll find plenty of evidence that there are indeed plenty of jewish people in the west that e.g. support Palestine or at least have a less black-and-white view on this situation. Again, people have been polled on this and there's support for both sides. Jewish celebrities have also been outspoken (for either side). But I'm sure you already know this to be true, else you would actually come up with a response instead of just sarcastically dismissing my reply.

David_D wrote: I do support the Palestinians in the conflict, not the extremists though, neither a boycot of a whole country, and yet,  I don't consider myself to be antisemitic, and I have even some family living in Israel.

It's three statements.