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The CD turns 40!

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David_D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 13:08
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Yessss, my post was meant to be ironic (as the cartoon I posted hinted), ...

Good to hear that, as to me it could seem to be mocking. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 13:28
Happy 40th, Compact Disc! I'll keep on buyin' ya! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 13:50
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Happy 40th, Compact Disc! I'll keep on buyin' ya! Thumbs Up

Me2.......for a $1 each...LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 05:26
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

We don't hear in digital, but we don't hear in analog either. The representation is analog. We hear soundwaves, and digital audio results in the same soundwaves as analog formats.

No, there's a big difference between analog and digital audio. "Analog" means "similar", and this kind of audio is called that because as a principle, we get all the original sound information, it has just been transformed into electrical and other forms and back again. In digital audio on the contrary, the original sound waves are in their electrical form "read" by a certain frequency and converted to digits. But only a part of the original sound information is "read" and converted to digits, and when converted back to sound, it's only an approximation of the original sound information.

To be fair, the term "analog" (like "digital") refers mostly to the form and not the content of "information", but I'd still say that my description is fair concerning the difference between digital and analog audio.

And yes, digital audio results in the same kind of soundwaves as analog audio, but with the difference I described.


Edited by David_D - October 06 2022 at 09:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 07:53
I usually avoid these Analog vs. Digital debates as they always get very technical and move away from subjectivity, for starters. And there's no way to convince an analog listener that digital is just as good or better in some respects, and vice versa. But someone brought up listening fatigue with CDs. I don't know what type of DAC they have, amplifiers or speakers. And honestly, I don't care, as this is totally in the realm of the subjective. Shrill top end to some is magic, while to others it's anathema. My everyday playback is on older Krell mono blocks with a Krell pre amp. My speakers are electrostat Martin Logan Summit Xs. My subs are Definitive. As far as listening fatigue, yes it happens, but only when I play it at very low volumes. A standard feature with most class A systems. But cranked up to 50 to 70 dbs, or more, and I've hit the sweet spot, be it analog or digital. I find very little listening difference aside from variance in dynamic range when comparing the two. And I have no skin in the game. A well mixed and mastered CD is just as good to me as a well mixed and mastered vinyl record. With no preference or preconceived bias, they are both excellent sounding. But it comes down to the equipment they are played on, not so much the medium, in my humble opinion.

Edited by SteveG - October 06 2022 at 08:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 09:20
^I agree with your opinion, and you have golden ears since you are a recording engineer wizard.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 09:43
No, I'm just a humble PA member with a little more experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 10:19
Well said Steve on your explanation above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 10:40
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Happy 40th, Compact Disc! I'll keep on buyin' ya! Thumbs Up

Me2.......for a $1 each...LOL

I could say the same, but then I'd be a liar. LOL

I've bought quite a few new CDs released this year alone. The soundtracks and Japanese reissues won't let up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 11:08
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Happy 40th, Compact Disc! I'll keep on buyin' ya! Thumbs Up

Me2.......for a $1 each...LOL

I could say the same, but then I'd be a liar. LOL

I've bought quite a few new CDs released this year alone. The soundtracks and Japanese reissues won't let up!
I hear ya man!! Reissues are coming out in droves, I need more money!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 11:38

I agree with you, SteveG, that sound preferences are to large degree subjective, but I doubt that 
they're entirely subjective.
I think that due to anatomy most people are most happy with the most natural sound.
Anyway, the most important is surely how oneself experiences digital vs analog audio quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 12:32
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I agree with you, SteveG, that sound preferences are to large degree subjective, but I doubt that 
they're entirely subjective.
I think that due to anatomy most people are most happy with the most natural sound.
Anyway, the most important is surely how oneself experiences digital vs analog audio quality.
If you put 10 audiophiles in a listening room without knowing the component specifications, aside from obvious distortion, they will all hear the different sound characteristics at differing levels. One will hear fuller mid range, the other will hear slightly lower bass extension, etc. But as to the sound quality being all  to their liking, it's not possible.That's where the subjectivity comes in. 

Edited by SteveG - October 06 2022 at 12:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 13:34
I got my first player in late summer or fall 1990 because I was filling in on a folk music radio show in Vancouver and had discovered all sorts of new music not readily available on vinyl.  I don't have very trained ears.  I feel like a really loud rocking song can sound better on vinyl.  But the convenience of CDs wins, and my tolerance for clicks and pops is nil at this point.  Ultimately I sold all my CDs to declutter and just listen on itunes and other streaming...my hearing isn't great and mp3 or mp4 is fine for me at this point!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 15:44

Interesting to hear that you're a recording engineer, SteveG, and I can tell that in my young days, I got training
as a Hi-Fi engineer, but I didn't work much with it.







Edited by David_D - October 06 2022 at 17:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 16:39
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I agree with you, SteveG, that sound preferences are to large degree subjective, but I doubt that 
they're entirely subjective.
I think that due to anatomy most people are most happy with the most natural sound.
Anyway, the most important is surely how oneself experiences digital vs analog audio quality.
So this is an interesting comment. Natural Sound is, IMHO, a cloud I just can't grab a hold of. What IS Natural. Different recording environment yield different acoustics. But oops, watch out...your listening room isn't the same as the recording room. You can see where this might lead. better to say Most Representative Sound if I might suggest.

But I understand what you're meaning to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 17:58
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I agree with you, SteveG, that sound preferences are to large degree subjective, but I doubt that 
they're entirely subjective.
I think that due to anatomy most people are most happy with the most natural sound.
Anyway, the most important is surely how oneself experiences digital vs analog audio quality.
So this is an interesting comment. Natural Sound is, IMHO, a cloud I just can't grab a hold of. What IS Natural. Different recording environment yield different acoustics. But oops, watch out...your listening room isn't the same as the recording room. You can see where this might lead. better to say Most Representative Sound if I might suggest.

But I understand what you're meaning to say.
I, like you, know what he means too...To me natural sound is what we hear when we walk outside and just listen to nature. Rooms of any kind have their own sound characters, as well so do instruments. An all acoustic quartet for example will sound different with different instruments and venues, so how do you define natural sound?
All I say is I strive to hear my music as natural as possible, meaning I don't want gear that colors what is on the media I'm listening to, that's about as far as I can go. This is why Steve is right, a room full of people (not just audiophiles, but mainly digi'philes LOL) will hear music differently, due to our ears.
I've sat and listened to $400K audio systems and thought man that sounds krappy, but then the next one will simply blow you away and take you on a journey! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 05:17
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I agree with you, SteveG, that sound preferences are to large degree subjective, but I doubt that 
they're entirely subjective.
I think that due to anatomy most people are most happy with the most natural sound.
Anyway, the most important is surely how oneself experiences digital vs analog audio quality.

So this is an interesting comment. Natural Sound is, IMHO, a cloud I just can't grab a hold of. What IS Natural. Different recording environment yield different acoustics. But oops, watch out...your listening room isn't the same as the recording room. You can see where this might lead. better to say Most Representative Sound if I might suggest.

But I understand what you're meaning to say.

It doesn't look to me that, what I've had in mind, is what you think, while this point of view of yours is more like the usual audiophile consideration. But yes, I guess it's better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 06:19
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I got my first player in late summer or fall 1990 because I was filling in on a folk music radio show in Vancouver and had discovered all sorts of new music not readily available on vinyl.  I don't have very trained ears.  I feel like a really loud rocking song can sound better on vinyl.  But the convenience of CDs wins, and my tolerance for clicks and pops is nil at this point.  Ultimately I sold all my CDs to declutter and just listen on itunes and other streaming...my hearing isn't great and mp3 or mp4 is fine for me at this point!

I'd say vinyls really started diminishing in the early 90's, but in certain areas (like UK) all rock albums were still released in Lp format throughout the 90's & 00's, albeit in small batches. 

I remember thinking that The Division Bell was the first Floyd album I owned as a CD - but the (double) vinyl was still available. Of course by that time, the resurgence of prog (the Scandinavian one, mostly) & grunge (in the wider sense) had made it that I was only buying CDs by the time, so it was a no-brainer for TDB.  

But back in the early 90's, the problem was reversed: plenty of music on vinyl unavailable in CD format... and when it was the case, it was often a disappointing rushed-job

Only once smaller labels like Repertoire started releasing unearthed 70's gems that I really made CD my only acquisition option.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2022 at 17:35
Dunno bout you guyz but I'm putting together another CD hors d'oeuvre!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2022 at 06:50
My first CD, purchased in 1992, was a 10cc compilation album.
 

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