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Your fave "avantgardish" Progressive Rock albums?

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David_D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 14:58
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

The creepy music of the  Italian-Slovenian band Devil Doll are about as "avant-garde" as it gets by the standards of my somewhat conservative musical tastes. Smile

3 stars 1989: Devil Doll - The Girl Who Was... Death - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYdcApobjTY&t=497s
3 stars 1990: Devil Doll - Eliogabulus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARus_-poevk
4 stars 1992: Devil Doll - Sacrilegium - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHu_LmvSjB4&t=407s
3 stars 1993: Devil Doll - The Sacrilege of Fatal Arms - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5uSrBgzXAs&t=1868s
4 stars 1996: Devil Doll - Dies Irae - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS87xpm8SoI&t=1527s

I've listened to the beginning of Dies Irae, and that was too "avantgardish" for me. Smile


Edited by David_D - August 16 2022 at 03:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 15:06
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

The creepy music of the  Italian-Slovenian band Devil Doll are about as "avant-garde" as it gets by the standards of my somewhat conservative musical tastes. Smile

3 stars 1989: Devil Doll - The Girl Who Was... Death - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYdcApobjTY&t=497s
3 stars 1990: Devil Doll - Eliogabulus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARus_-poevk
4 stars 1992: Devil Doll - Sacrilegium - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHu_LmvSjB4&t=407s
3 stars 1993: Devil Doll - The Sacrilege of Fatal Arms - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5uSrBgzXAs&t=1868s
4 stars 1996: Devil Doll - Dies Irae - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS87xpm8SoI&t=1527s

I've listened to the beginning of Dies Irae, and that was too avantgardish for me. Smile
If you don't like Devil Doll's last spine-tingling album (my favourite) then it's best to avoid all of them, or they might give you nightmares. Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 18:31

To be fair, Nick, due to our previous problems, my comment to your first post was too critical. Sorry about that. Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 01:57
Devil Doll clicked very easily for me and I listened to him for some time, but not something that I play a lot. RIO/Avant as a genre was something I avoided for many years. Or rather, didn’t work for me. One of the first albums that peaked my interest and I still love is Risk by Far Corner. It was a leap from my typical symphonic, but there were stuff that mde me keep coming back. It’s hard hitting and a wonderful album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 05:43

What I've already learned in this thread is that maybe not so many people as I've imagined listen to some music they find 
"challenging". As far it concerns me, I've done it for many years, or maybe more rightly speaking, I've listened to some
music I didn't particularly like with the purpose to widen my horizon, and see if I could become more fond of it.






Edited by David_D - August 16 2022 at 05:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 05:56
Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

Devil Doll clicked very easily for me and I listened to him for some time, but not something that I play a lot. RIO/Avant as a genre was something I avoided for many years. Or rather, didn’t work for me. One of the first albums that peaked my interest and I still love is Risk by Far Corner. It was a leap from my typical symphonic, but there were stuff that mde me keep coming back. It’s hard hitting and a wonderful album.
Devil Doll are devilishly good, if you like that kind of thing. They make Dead Can Dance sound positively mainstream by comparison. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 06:35
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I guess perhaps David would like us to put forward our own definition of “avantgardish”, rather than stick to his. But even then, I would be reluctant, because “avantgardish” sounds so vague. 

Actually, I wouldn't say that I've defined "avantgardish". I just use it in a certain, loose way, which can be seen in my list, and no, I have no intention about you others to define it. But I guess that my OP could be put better/more precisely. Smile


Edited by David_D - August 16 2022 at 06:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 06:53
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

What I've already learned in this thread is that maybe not so many people as I've imagined listen to some music they find "challenging". As far it concerns me, I've done it for many years, or maybe more rightly speaking, I've listened to some music I didn't particularly like with the purpose to widen my horizon, and see if I could become more fond of it.
I would say this is what you have inferred, rather than what you've learnt, and I would (once again) caution you in your inferences, as you do often seem to come to conclusions that were not intended by the original posters. Not to say I am right, or that you are wrong, but I have seen little to nothing that suggests that people do not listen to some music they find "challenging" so much that they either don't find much challenging, and/or what you might call "avantgardish" they don't find challenging at all. I think you would do well to disregard the notion of what is (or is not) challenging, as it really does not have much to do with what is (or is not) "avantgardish".

Whether something is challenging has a lot to do with when someone encounters it. I have no doubt that a lot of the music I listen to these days, and don't find challenging at all, I would have found "particularly challenging" - perhaps even challenging enough that I might have given up - had I listened to it when I were younger, and had heard little that was outside the mainstream and conventional comfort zone. Nor have I have ever shirked from challenging music. But what challenged me when I was younger were sounds and styles like hip hop, ambient, industrial, funk, soul, and extreme metal - all styles somewhat adjacent to, or even part of, the mainstream. The avant garde (or "avantgardish") was not even in my sight - or perhaps, rather, my hearing.

Remove the idea of challenging, and I think more people might be willing to discuss the "avantgardish" music they listen to. Although it will still be difficult for many, I suspect, simply because as a descriptor "avantgardish" seems even almost devoid of meaning or definition. While I appreciate this is because you would like to know what our own definitions are, it is hard to fit definitions to a made up word from someone else. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 07:15
I'm with some others saying that often what is normally referred to as "avantgarde" is less challenging to me than some stuff that many people seem to love at first sight.

However it took me some time to get into Tangerine Dream - Zeit and Cpt. Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica, and I really love them now, so these would fit the bill. Faust (I and IV in particular) are another case of not much love at first listen, but growing later.

As is well known, I am a big Art Zoyd fan, but they won me over from the very first minute I listened to their music. Their most challenging for me, still ultimately very good album is Champ Des Larmes (there's also "Pure Noise" which even for me is too out there in unlistenable territory). Metropolis and Phase V, although clearly good albums from the get-go, offer lots to discover at repeat listening.


Edited by Lewian - August 16 2022 at 08:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 07:31
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:


However it took me some time to get into Tangerine Dream - Zeit and Cpt. Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica, and I really love them now, so these would fit the bill. Faust (I and IV in particular) are another case of not much love at first listen, but growing later.


Those are 4 albums I thought about when originally posting on this subject.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Progmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 07:44
Napalm Death - "Scum" it´s a very challenging record but i dont consider Avant Garde by any way.

I agree with Lewian, in my case love at first earing Dün - Eros
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 09:08
JACULA:- One of my all-time favourite "avanti-gardi" prog bands from Italy. Smile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 09:46
 
You're more active in this thread than I imagined, Paul. Thanks  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 09:58
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

 
You're more active in this thread than I imagined, Paul. Thanks  Smile

You're welcome! It helps that I can define my own idea of what is "Avant Prog" instead of keeping strictly to PA's definition. If you like the haunting sound of Jacula, then you may like Antonius Rex too, as they're both from the same Italian vineyard, so to speak. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 10:02
Paul lives in an alternative univers where Magma aren't Zeuhl, Caravan aren't Canterbury, Amon Dull II aren't Krautrock and PFM aren't RPI.

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - August 16 2022 at 10:03
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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 10:35
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Paul lives in an alternative univers where Magma aren't Zeuhl, Caravan aren't Canterbury, Amon Dull II aren't Krautrock and PFM aren't RPI.

I couldn't possibly comment on Amon Dull II, Magma or PFM as I've never listened to those three bands, but since when have Caravan not been part of the Canterbury Scene when they're from the Canterbury area? LOL


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - August 16 2022 at 11:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 11:06
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Paul lives in an alternative univers where Magma aren't Zeuhl, Caravan aren't Canterbury, Amon Dull II aren't Krautrock and PFM aren't RPI.

LOL  - even I'm not sure, I agree. Big smile

I'd like also to thank you, Ian, and praise you for your very constructive respond to my OP, even you, if any, might have questioned my use of "avantgardish".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 13:49
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Paul lives in an alternative univers where Magma aren't Zeuhl, Caravan aren't Canterbury, Amon Dull II aren't Krautrock and PFM aren't RPI.

I couldn't possibly comment on Amon Dull II, Magma or PFM as I've never listened to those three bands, but since when have Caravan not been part of the Canterbury Scene when they're from the Canterbury area? LOL

They've been around so long, I'm surprised that they're not paleo-prog and neo-prog at the same time, sort of a poly-prog band.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RockHound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2022 at 18:53
The avant-ish albums I really like aren’t so much the ones that are abstract as the ones that totally mess with your head.

Prime examples:

My Life in the Bush of Ghosts
Studio Tan
Edit Peptide
The League of Gentlemen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2022 at 02:54

Btw, talking about contradictions.... Wink
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