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Could TLLDOB be considered proto- neo prog?
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Points: 19169 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2022 at 12:33
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

However, proto prog, proto metal and proto punk are all genres to some people.

Those are different. What you offered up was a flavor like "chocolatey chocolate." LOL
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An album which always sounded proto-neo to me is La Locanda Delle Fate "Forse le Luciole Non Si Amano Piu" (1977). Some guitar lines are very Rothery-eske... but the keyboards are still analog classic prog, no Yamaha DX-7 there.
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Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

An album which always sounded proto-neo to me is La Locanda Delle Fate "Forse le Luciole Non Si Amano Piu" (1977). Some guitar lines are very Rothery-eske... but the keyboards are still analog classic prog, no Yamaha DX-7 there.

Hi,

SO will any band that has/uses the same instrument for "analog/classic".

It's not about the instrument ... it's about the music! 
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

An album which always sounded proto-neo to me is La Locanda Delle Fate "Forse le Luciole Non Si Amano Piu" (1977). Some guitar lines are very Rothery-eske... but the keyboards are still analog classic prog, no Yamaha DX-7 there.

Hi,

SO will any band that has/uses the same instrument for "analog/classic".

It's not about the instrument ... it's about the music! 

I'm not so sure about that. If you replaced the Mellotron in In The Court of the Crimson King with someone who could produce lengthy farts, the music will sound different and have a different impact on the listener. 
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Points: 5154 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 03:49
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

An album which always sounded proto-neo to me is La Locanda Delle Fate "Forse le Luciole Non Si Amano Piu" (1977). Some guitar lines are very Rothery-eske... but the keyboards are still analog classic prog, no Yamaha DX-7 there.

Hi,

SO will any band that has/uses the same instrument for "analog/classic".

It's not about the instrument ... it's about the music! 

I'm not so sure about that. If you replaced the Mellotron in In The Court of the Crimson King with someone who could produce lengthy farts, the music will sound different and have a different impact on the listener. 
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Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

An album which always sounded proto-neo to me is La Locanda Delle Fate "Forse le Luciole Non Si Amano Piu" (1977). Some guitar lines are very Rothery-eske... but the keyboards are still analog classic prog, no Yamaha DX-7 there.

Agreed--BIG TIME! Re-reading my review of the album I'd also repeatedly cited comparisons to both Genesis Foxtrot/SEbtP-era and Renaissance. 

Since both Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering had come out long before the time Forse le lucciole non si amano più was released (on my 19th birthday in June), might we consider this album, Forse le lucciole non si amano più, to be the birth of Neo Prog--not just proto-? (I mean, as others have said--many, many times for many years--the generally accepted prototype for Neo Prog is/was cosidered to be Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering. Therefore, I say, unleash the hounds!)




Edited by BrufordFreak - July 07 2022 at 08:01
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Points: 5154 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2022 at 12:26
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

An album which always sounded proto-neo to me is La Locanda Delle Fate "Forse le Luciole Non Si Amano Piu" (1977). Some guitar lines are very Rothery-eske... but the keyboards are still analog classic prog, no Yamaha DX-7 there.

Agreed--BIG TIME! Re-reading my review of the album I'd also repeatedly cited comparisons to both Genesis Foxtrot/SEbtP-era and Renaissance. 

Since both Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering had come out long before the time Forse le lucciole non si amano più was released (on my 19th birthday in June), might we consider this album, Forse le lucciole non si amano più, to be the birth of Neo Prog--not just proto-? (I mean, as others have said--many, many times for many years--the generally accepted prototype for Neo Prog is/was cosidered to be Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering. Therefore, I say, unleash the hounds!)
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Points: 9877 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geekfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2022 at 02:18
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Argo2112 Argo2112 wrote:

I think if we try to invent one more sub genera of prog (Prot - Neo) the web site may actually explode causing bodily harm to millions of people across the internet. I wouldn't risk it ! LOL
This is true. We should be eliminating sub genres as a safety measure.
 
Agreed LOL
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Points: 15691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2022 at 15:57
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

As far as the music is concerned, yeah, The Lamb I think was a dramatic shift in Genesis' sound that was much closer to the synthier stuff on ATOTT and especially W&W than it was anything that had come before it, ....

I agree here. Besides that, about half of The Lamb had much more Pop-oriented melodies and vocals than earlier Genesis, and was as such too a forerunner for Neo-Prog, and on that behalf could be called "proto-Neo".


Edited by David_D - August 02 2022 at 18:08
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Points: 2163 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote earlyprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2022 at 05:23
Here's a clue for you all, the first proto neo-prog album was 'And then there were three'

Edited by earlyprog - August 03 2022 at 05:29
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Points: 1840 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Formentera Lady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 06 2022 at 21:23
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I was thinking about how The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway has mostly shorter songs yet still is usually thought of as being full blown prog. 
I would like to comment on this. In my opinion the length of a track is no criteria whether a track is prog rock, symphonic prog or neo-prog at all.  There can me extremely long songs (for example in classical music or in jazz) which is not prog rock, and there are short songs which has all ingredients of a prog rock track. It is about the inner structure, the harmonies, the relations between the instruments etc., which defines prog rock, and also neo-prog. Neo-prog in general is more 'simplified' than symphonic prog in beat, harmonies, stucture etc, not shorter. Just saying.
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Points: 29991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2022 at 00:03
yep it always comes back to what is prog rock? 

The definition has been widened over the years to just about any band or artist that is creative. Genesis generally moved to short form songs from Lamb onwards and they were the main inspiration for neo prog bands. 
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