Is Italian prog epigonic?

moshkito wrote: Frenetic Zetetic wrote: ... It's often the most uncreative, close-minded people that think they have to come up with super-articulate genres, labels, and titles for everything. Hi, Careful. You might be pointing a silly toe to someone here on this thread! To me, and I say this all the time, things are different. After 50 years of solid listening, I have a really hard time even selecting the "best" (what bs!!!) album, or "best" (such lack of intelligence) guitarist, or "best"(dumbest time keeper and snare drum user!") drummer. It simply does not factor anymore, and all it says is that how it is all used in its own "realm" and "specialty" that makes the music far out and attractive. Thus, it is easy for me to say that anytime we meet, YET AGAIN, another person pushing the commercial side of things with the objective/subjective sheep dip, you know right away that such a listener is very limited, and the writer? EVEN WORSE ... if they don't resort to numbers, they go after the color of instruments ... wow ... such powerful symbols for the mememe generation! It says it all, really!

Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - June 01 2022 at 01:28

jamesbaldwin wrote: The criterion is: "the historical importance of each work, especially taking into account the intrinsic innovative content from the perspective of a music historian who is also a musician."

That's your average modernist historian approach to all the arts. I understand it, and it has it's use. But I don't swear by it. Not anymore. Of course King Crimson will be more relevant for a book like this than any of the italian groups that followed in their footsteps. But personally I don't need to look at art like this. When I was younger and lacked confidence I thought that this historic relevance, innovation blahblah was "the only way". But I wasn't being true to myself and started feeling these strict rules was extremely limiting. Now I proudly enjoy whatever I enjoy. Sometimes it's within the "correct" because Miles, Coltrane and King Crimson are actually great. But I have heard enough 1950-1960's early electronic "hours of bleeps, boulders and fartsounds" - now give me some Kosmishe Laufer instead. It's anachronistic, but created by someone who dearly loves this music - and absolutely stunning. Their operate within an established tradition but their melodies are their own creation still. Sometimes I think they even surpass their idols. I'm glad some people keep making the music they love... one, five-or fifty years too late to end up in Enrico Merlin's book. He's will always be of less importance to me than... Michi Dei Rossi anyway.

Lewian wrote: @Saperlipopette: But as far as I see it, neither what Merlin nor what jamesbaldwin wrote has any implications on what you or anyone "should" like. What you say makes sense but misses the point. You can't mean that one should stop discussing historical importance just because historical importance is separate from taste.

I didn't write that, did I? I instantly recognized Merlin's approach as it's sort of the consensus, and wanted to write why it's not mine anymore. Maybe to inspire others. This is considered the "more correct" way of approaching art and has been for over hundred years. I've grown up with and educated into this mentality. Its basically rules to follow that I'm certain the author himself has been force fed with, as all living academics have. But I didn't shoot at the messenger/jamesbaldwin at all.

siLLy puPPy wrote: Is there a list of the artists available? I can't find anything doing a quick search. I suppose i'd have to order the book, huh?

Saperlipopette! wrote: jamesbaldwin wrote: The criterion is: "the historical importance of each work, especially taking into account the intrinsic innovative content from the perspective of a music historian who is also a musician." That's your average modernist historian approach to all the arts. I understand it, and it has it's use. But I don't swear by it. Not anymore. ...

The Merlin's prog selection.

Together with Area, Demetrio Stratos soloist and Napoli Centrale, 

Edited by jamesbaldwin - May 27 2023 at 03:54

lazland wrote: I think people sometimes overthink all of this. It’s music, just music. As I said on a recent review, you could argue that every single musician since Ug the Neanderthal picked up a bone and started hitting a skin drum and discovered some interesting noises that somebody influences somebody else. There was, on PA, a massive row a few years back. I started it, and regretted it pretty much instantly. I wanted to start a debate about sub-genres, or more to the point was making an argument to get rid of all or most of the bloody things on the site. I made an argument that RPI was, basically, symphonic prog sung in Italian, and I received a massive load of abuse for said argument. It made me resign as a collaborator, and I learned an important lesson then. That lesson was, don’t overanalyse. Don’t overthink. Don’t try to apportion this band to that sub-genre, or that band to that particular pigeonhole. Just enjoy the music, or not, as the case might be. If you enjoy it, tell the world and tell them why. If you don’t, then tell the world and tell them why in a respectful manner, because the artist put their heart and soul into the musical product you don’t like (I have not always lived up to those lofty ideals, but I do try my best).

David_D wrote: The classic Italian Prog is just great.