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ProgDay 2022 is ON! |
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Nogbad_The_Bad 
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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 Topic: ProgDay 2022 is ON!Posted: May 27 2022 at 18:33 |
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From ProgDay FB page
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Man With Hat
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Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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Posted: May 27 2022 at 22:54 |
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Cool. I won't be able to make it, as per usual, but I'm glad this continues on.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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wiz_d_kidd
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Joined: January 13 2018 Location: EllicottCityMD Status: Offline Points: 1423 |
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Posted: May 28 2022 at 07:19 |
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Making plans now!
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: May 28 2022 at 07:24 |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Manuel
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Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Online Points: 13313 |
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Posted: May 28 2022 at 11:33 |
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I wish I could be there.
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HolyMoly
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Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
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Posted: June 05 2022 at 11:00 |
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I’ll be there!
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: June 05 2022 at 18:52 |
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Hi,
I hope/wish, that one day many of these shows get streamed for a fee ... I have no way to get there and be able to see this, and somehow, it's hard to not feel that we're doing the music a sad dis-service, because we can not figure out a way to extend its appeal ... beyond the old fashioned way. I realize that lots of folks are scared of the rip offs and stealing of the stream, but you can get around this by getting the bands to agree to a video and/or CD to help it all ... these things have to get a wider appeal ... for progressive music to improve and get more attention ... some of us hope anyway, although I do not think I will see any of this in my lifetime. The interest is for a new future is not showing I don't think and that's not good for the music and the art!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: June 05 2022 at 19:53 |
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Yay Pedro way to support the scene!
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: June 06 2022 at 06:50 |
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Hi, I've supported the "scene" from day 1 in the mid 60's. At that time it was the NEW this and that which helped bring things around, and a couple of years later, a "new" technology, made the "progressive" and "experimental" scene huge for the next 10 years. This was the FM radio band, which did not quite take hold in England as the BBC did its best to prevent it from happening, but the BBC were the ones that ended up losing in this battle, due to the incredible huge sales and numbers coming out of America. The new "technology" (FM was in STEREO), helped so many of these bands, the the top 5 of our lists all belong to the grand stand of the FM radio days. Most of their material was not even played on the cheezy AM radio band. The only issue I have is that many of these folks, in my book, appear to think that one concert with 1000 fans is going to make it for them, and it isn't, and is a recipe for disaster. I SPECIFICALLY remember Sean Ahearn in the 1999 SF Progressive Music Festival that had an amazing line up, and yet ... he took a bath that probably ate up everything he had including the clothing off his back ... and out music can not survive that, and we must do better to ensure that they do not lose that much. Apparently, the SFPMF only sold about 40% of the needed tickets to help break even, which I think was around 75%. AND it had Porcupine Tree, Gong, Magma, Brand X (a sad version but quite good), Bondage Fruit, Buckethead (local did not even have a quarter of the audience), Per Lindh (with Magdalena!!!), The Rocket Scientists and a few more ... and yet ... it lost a huge amount of money! A lot of the bands listing for today, almost all fall into a secondary category for a show, and it is difficult to see how a show can make it to a break even point. That's not to say that one of the bands does not deserve the accolades and the chance, THEY ALL DO, but more is needed, and we need to rely on the TECHNOLOGY to help us take this into the next century. We're being stupid. One of these days, the Rolling Stones will do a live stream and it will sell buckets and buckets, and all of a sudden every one will do this ... and a progressive show, is left out, as before over taken by a conglomerate of rich record companies insisting that no one ... NO ONE ... that is not on their lists has a good chance to get anywhere in sales and presentation. And still, we post insignificant comments, about me personally, instead of discussing the content and idea in the first place, which shows that person's dedication to progressive music. I WANT TO SEE THE FUTURE, NOT THE PAST! We can't see the "future" in music, when all we can do is hide it even more, in ages old means and styles.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: June 06 2022 at 07:26 |
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ProgDay has been running since 1995. They know their financial constraints. They have a history of budgeting bands that they can afford with the 300 to 400 fans who attend.
This is a niche festival that works well with its format and has a loyal following. Let's celebrate that rather than despair at a lack of a global streaming presence.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: June 07 2022 at 08:12 |
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Hi, Trust me ... I appreciate this a lot more than you seem to imagine. I only wish I could have a chance in my lifetime to see one of these things ... but at 71, I don't see it happening and I don't see the "technology" making any gains to help with "progressive music" and I can't help seeing/thinking that this is exactly what happened to many "scenes" that disappeared after a few days (so to speak), because there wasn't enough to help them along. There was a concert series, and I can not even tell you which, that put out CD's of some of the music from the bands that performed, and I think that part of the deal was that one piece, or two would be in the CD to help promote it, and everyone would share on it ... I imagine that to be nice, but easy for someone to say ... we only sold 324 CD's, when the number was more like 432 ... but you and I can only hope that it is all done with the right intentions and best hopes to share it and make sure that everyone gains from it. There was another event in LA that had Daevid Allen right after his break from GONG, and I think it was 1975, that also featured CHRONICLE, that I am not sure if it was related to the FAR EAST FAMILY BAND or someone else. They were very good, though DA did not sound very good with some new folks behind him, and to my ears, sounded poor. I do not remember who else was in that show that night. That show, more than likely also took a bath ... it had, maybe, 200 folks in the audience, or so. And we're talking LA where the volume alone of folks into progressive music was a very important and natural fact during the early days of the FM radio band and the sales of what was considered "underground" at the time, and became the new music of the new radio signal in stereo. That "underground" scene, included Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart as well, and was documented and augmented by the LA FREE PRESS. However, by the time 1975 came around, they were all big time, even though FZ states that he did not have money for a whole lot even then.
Edited by moshkito - June 07 2022 at 08:14 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: June 16 2022 at 07:35 |
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Hi,
Adding to the whole thing about streaming. Notice that at least one level of American Sports is getting together with Apple so they can "centralize" their product better and not have so many different distributors with their "rules" and I think that the specific one that they want to kill is the blacking out of the show in local markets, EVEN, when it is sold out. The streaming side of it, will simply take that out of the equation altogether, while centering all the commercial attention they can get nationally to cover what would be lost otherwise. More specifically, in the lower area of the articles, is the mention of streaming it directly to the public to help provide better viewing appreciation for the actual fans of a team, specially many that can not make it to the show ... who get "punished" and won't be able to see their favorite team at least 4 or5 games out of the year. Streaming is the future, and I think it will finally KILL the television ... because television is a serious part of the problem in terms of it continually insisting on making the rules for you the viewer to help "protect" their money and numbers. This all got started, btw, when radio and tv became too expensive to be able to collect local money, and most of these "corporate" stations rely on the national accounts for their profits ... the Army, Navy, Pepsi, Coke and such, are massive money for these stations. As an example, our local station (Fm number 1) finally got Army and Navy ads ... result? The prices for advertising of local folks dropped by two thirds ... why? The money from the national accounts, resulted in the prices being raised to help generate more revenue ... and this closed out many local groups! Again, IF we are to make more of this, I think that streaming could play the part that the FM radio did in America in the late 60's and early 70's by giving us new material and all of a sudden everyone is on it ... sadly this only lasted 10 years before the great corporate rape which bought out all those stations, and in one case (LA famous story - ask Roger and Jim L.) turned the number 1 station into a new wave crap drop!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: June 16 2022 at 08:12 |
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I certainly see streaming taking over on sport, I have Hulu and it's amazing how many niche sports I can get on there just because they can stream them at low cost and make them available.
My biggest problem is all the different providers fighting out territory at the moment and insisting that you subscribe to their full service rather than picking off individual events. If I wanted to watch everything that's out their I'd need to subscribe to ESPN+, AppleTV, Paramount, etc etc. I'm not paying monthly fees to multiple providers to gain access to all the content when I'm looking for one or two events. I believe MLS are going to Apple TV and that will kill viewership. I don't see the same thing happening on music for niche genres like prog as the possible audience is pretty small but then I'm old school and have little interest in paying for streaming live shows so may not be a good judge. |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: June 21 2022 at 05:55 |
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Hi, Same here. And my only worry is that the glut is going to hurt when the time comes. Sports will kinda give us a better idea, but my take is that some record companies will eventually start parading their bands, and help streaming into the scene. Again, the content is regulated, but the only difference is that no one will be stupid enough to cut down the audience by not making the product available ... to someone else. MLS is making a huge mistake. Apple is one of the worst providers in terms of sharing, and I will not spend a cent on it, and will gladly dump MLS ... I think that the whole Apple thing will fall apart after a year when MLS loses viewers. A few years back they were streaming some games for a low rate monthly, and I watched it ... and they stopped it, which is bizarre, and never really allowed or helped improve their own viewership ... too lazy to advertise, or likely they had issues with local broadcast rights by many of the teams. I remember the old days in Brasil, when the WC was on 1962 when they won ... there wasn't a radio on anywhere, and everyone knew what happened and how. The media decision to flood the market helped bring about a huge game, and a bunch of leagues, helped by some outstanding players. In America, I think that MLS is just a small time nobody that does not see the wider, world wide spectacle, and they do not think they can get past Football, Basketball and Baseball. IN all likelihood, those three sports have more of a chance to a let down, than MLS ... and going with Apple, who is NOT the major player in anything except over priced stuff ... is a serious problem. I'm betting that some teams will not like the terms or the fact that their team did not get chosen and they will eventually be sent to the bench and shared with other providers. Apple is NOT going to start streaming anything until they KNOW they can take your money!
I'm old school no different than you ... but I have no issue with watching some shows on the toob, and you probably don't either. In the end, it will be similar, or the same. In fact, the one to do this and they have the ability and the money to stream something, would be the toob! The problem is their choices, and they will likely go for the ones that most folks hit on their website ... and that, again, does not help new music and other potential artistic scenes that include music. It has to be done almost independently, sort of like the late 60's FM stations that were all independent and locally owned and those folks played whatever they wanted, and it helped bring about the new music and the new everything in the arts, which kinda was already happening in literature, jazz, film and so on ... one need only look to Marlon Brando screaming STTTTTELLLLLLAAAA ... to realize this is going to end up in rock music, and it did! Same in England, with the "angry young men" insulting audiences and throwing the idea of play out with completely different material. Film fits perfectly here as did a lot of literature ... rock music was just very late to the party, but it went by faster than everyone else!
Edited by moshkito - June 21 2022 at 06:01 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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JD
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Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Posted: June 21 2022 at 07:10 |
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Running any festival is a major undertaking. Being involved in a Large Blues and Jazz festival has shown me that. So kudos to anyone who can pull off a successful one. As to the streaming concept. ISP's are going to have to get a helluva lot better with their service before I'd even consider it. Way too many times we've had Netflix or Crave or Prime or even YouTube do a dump in the middle of a show because the download speed has dropped from our regular 25 Mb/s to somewhere below 9 Mb/s or even 5 Mb/s sometimes. It infuriates me. That's why I choose DL's to streams. Now...all that being said, watching a festival or even just a concert on TV, well that's not how live music should be experienced IMO. I have lots of concert discs. Can't remember the last time I put on one to watch.
Edited by JD - June 21 2022 at 07:12 |
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: June 21 2022 at 07:19 |
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I put DVD's on and watch streaming (it was Bonnaroo this weekend) but its's nothing like going to see a band. I get excited to go to concerts.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
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Posted: June 21 2022 at 22:45 |
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Hi, Part of the issue with a lot of smaller websites, is that the provider for the ISP gives them a machine that handles only so much ... at least it did 15 years ago when I was doing Tech Support for our ISP and Tech Support for the Internet in general. There was a choice of machines and their cost was determined by their size. One serious issue here ... most of these would considered old Win XP like, maybe even Win XP Pro, but the setting up for these was very difficult and you had to know your stuff ... but streaming was a serious problem. In 1999 when I did my show "The Space" we put up our own machine, faster, bigger, more memory, and running on Unix ... and I had the license for Real Audio for 25 streams, since at that time it was about how many streams yo paid for. The 100 streams was prohibitive money wise for me. But it was good enough for me. The show ran for 9 months, until the ISP was sold, and the new owner one day woke up and turned it off, and cried that his precious bandwidth was being taken away. That was the end of that adventure. These days, with processing on computers way faster, and more memory, I doubt that streaming could be an issue, since both AT&T, Verizon or any other major provider, have plenty enough pipe bandwidth to go across the country thousands of times. However, the setup can not be a small minded ISP at all ... since an ISP these days is just another computer running from home, so to speak, and this is very prohibitive for streaming and Comcast, Time Warner, or any other major provider, will not want you doing this from home, and you have to setup a machine at their major junction (2 in Portland which also handles Vancouver WA) so to keep the pipes in town clearer. The cost is another issue ... however this is something that very large business do and run their "servers" from to maintain their bandwidth use. A show like ProgDay I think would have to find the major local provider and then discuss the issue with them, with a lawyer next to them ... why? Because if they realize how easy it can be they will do it themselves and not have to pay you a dime! ISP's these days, are just about non-existent, thus the idea that the toob would be a good provider, however, look at who they are owned by, and you know that a year or two later it will sound just like all the FM stations intown playing the classics over and over! Eventually something has to break ... since as time goes by TV and Video will be EXACTLY the same thing, and mostly wireless ... which will kill Cable TV, FINALLY for its control of home viewing, which prevents the freedom of streaming. However that's like saying that there are no groups or companies out there that are wanting to challenge the status quo and blow it apart, and these are the folks we want ... they were (let's say) the same ones that started FM radio in the late 60's and helped make Progressive Music what it has become. A bad/sordid example ... just to give you an idea about how courageous people can be ... several years ago in California the FCC decided that they wanted to take down all those small FM stations running from everyone's garage ... micro-radio it was called I think. Someone in the Bay Area put up a fight, and took the FCC to court ... and their friends? All the law students at Berkeley and Stanford ... the result ... the FCC was totally insulted, not prepared and the judge got upset and killed their prohibition right there ... micro radio is still tough and the FCC is chasing it, but not as fervently as then. You have to have the guts and the fire in your belly to fight ... and not quit. For me, the concert venue idea is wonderfull and I love it but seeing Sean Ahearn lose just about everything in his life just trying to get Gong, and Brand X and the SF Progressive Music Festival going ... and the guy simply ended up disappearing because folks thought it was a highway to nowhere, with not enough fans, and not much help elsewhere ... but I don't think that Sean knew much about the Internet, its strength and its ability and how it could help him ... and no one knew at least half the bands, which is worse! Sad as it may seem, seeing Buckethead, a local in the Bay Area, just end up with a quarter of the theater folks ... ought to tell you something ... there is too much "hit driven" crap out there, and we need to do better than the same thing they do if we want to take this further ... at 72, my friend, I seriously doubt I will see it ... the interest is just so old fashioned as to make me cry! New music will come via a new method ... and we don't get it ... and the only viable "new" method is streaming!
Edited by moshkito - June 22 2022 at 06:35 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Online Points: 18247 |
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Posted: July 01 2022 at 09:28 |
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There's a 99 percent chance I won't be going but just out of curiosity have any bands been announced yet?
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: July 01 2022 at 09:33 |
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None so far
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
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RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20843 |
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Posted: July 01 2022 at 10:50 |
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First Two Bands for ProgDay 2022!ProgDay is happy to announce it’s first two bands for 2022:
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Michael Bennett wrote: