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How to define and classify "Progressive Rock"?
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

.....and then starting from the nineties it seems that prog has been reborn, and today, if we consider prog every form of contamination, prog is rampant, but in reality is no longer true prog. It is the music that changes, that keeps up with the time.....

Overall, therefore, I tend to consider only (or almost) the albums of the seventies to be masterpieces of true prog.......
Clap
 
For me this is pretty much it. True Progressive Rock in the late 60s to late 70's, from there it turned into ProgRock and 90s forward it is rock music with prog tendencies, but not true Prog let alone Progressive.

It's fairly simple for me.

I surely respect this point of view, James B. and Catcher, and in fact I agree a bit, but as I've said it before, I wonder if it's constructive for Prog. 
I think, we must see the present state of Prog as a natural part of the whole cultural situation, which certainly not is the same as in the second half of the 60's and in (the first half of) the 70's. Acknowleding this, it's in my opinion better try to accept the limitations of the typical, present musical achievements, and appreciate them anyway, on their own terms.


Edited by David_D - May 26 2022 at 16:01
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Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

What the hell is even going on in this thread right now? LOL

Brendon, sometimes we must reluctantly accept that a thread has outlasted it's usefulness…

Wait! What? This thread was once useful? 😱😱😱
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I have had this argument so many times...

The late 60s provided the cultural and technological revolution that gave birth to prog...
That lasted until some point in the late 70s in relation to prog 'rock' (anything since sounds like parody)
Prog struggled for an audience during the 80s apart from some outliers
Early 90s, experimental, electronica etc. gave progressive music a renaissance but it was no longer prog rock, etc.
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

That's fantastic considering how often you and Psycho strokes each others 'egos'

Whatever, it's not a good thing to call him that way, Ian. Smile
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What? It's short for Psychodelic. 
Ian

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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

What? It's short for Psychodelic. 

LOL  Sorry, Paul, but I can't stop laughing at this one.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:


.....and then starting from the nineties it seems that prog has been reborn, and today, if we consider prog every form of contamination, prog is rampant, but in reality is no longer true prog. It is the music that changes, that keeps up with the time.....

Overall, therefore, I tend to consider only (or almost) the albums of the seventies to be masterpieces of true prog.......

Clap
 

For me this is pretty much it. True Progressive Rock in the late 60s to late 70's, from there it turned into ProgRock and 90s forward it is rock music with prog tendencies, but not true Prog let alone Progressive.

It's fairly simple for me.
True prog? Wacko  This seems to be a recurring theme. Just because you don't like prog music of today doesn't mean it's contaminated, or rock music with prog tendencies. Progressive music, to me, is defined as something that sounds different and pushes boundaries. The masterpieces of "true prog" were contaminated with influences of classical, jazz and pop music.  

I'll mention a few artists I believe are more progressive than the moldy true-proggers. Our esteemed reviewers at PA could list more "still-contributing-worthwhile-prog" artists/bands than I could, so please feel free to do so. 

In the 80's, Allan Holdsworth's solo material was beyond any fusion or rock I ever heard. It still is. His music is timeless and sounds fresh today. The way he voiced his chords and his leads were totally unique and original. There are several who tried to emulate him but none ever got close. Seems progressive to me.

In the late 80's early 90's prog-metal was developed. Dream Theater's,  Images and Words, blew my socks off. It was as good, if not better, than any of the true prog masterpieces.  

In the 00's, The Mars Volta, Animals as Leaders, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, and Between the Buried and Me were making music that sounded totally original. Pushing boundaries, progressing. 

In the 10's, Thank You Scientist, The Aristocrats, Covet, ni, etc. are pushing boundaries and making progressive music. There are more choices and more excellent bands out there to explore today than anytime in progs history.

If you want to be stuck in the 70's and refuse to acknowledge that prog has progressed, that's your opinion. If it's because modern-prog is not your pint of brew, then your logic is flawed. 

Cheers to "still-contributing-worthwhile-prog" artists/bands.
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Very good contribution, Grumpy. Thumbs Up
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^Thanks, David.

These arguments, really irk me. It's reminds me of the old farts who sit on their porch and whine. In their day they had to walk five miles to school through a tornado, how great the music was when they grew up, and the music whippersnappers listen to today, on their phones, isn't music. 

Well, I'm an old fart and I would leave the porch if my friends said that. Wink
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:


.....and then starting from the nineties it seems that prog has been reborn, and today, if we consider prog every form of contamination, prog is rampant, but in reality is no longer true prog. It is the music that changes, that keeps up with the time.....

Overall, therefore, I tend to consider only (or almost) the albums of the seventies to be masterpieces of true prog.......

Clap
 

For me this is pretty much it. True Progressive Rock in the late 60s to late 70's, from there it turned into ProgRock and 90s forward it is rock music with prog tendencies, but not true Prog let alone Progressive.

It's fairly simple for me.
True prog? Wacko  This seems to be a recurring theme. Just because you don't like prog music of today doesn't mean it's contaminated, or rock music with prog tendencies. Progressive music, to me, is defined as something that sounds different and pushes boundaries. The masterpieces of "true prog" were contaminated with influences of classical, jazz and pop music.  

I'll mention a few artists I believe are more progressive than the moldy true-proggers. Our esteemed reviewers at PA could list more "still-contributing-worthwhile-prog" artists/bands than I could, so please feel free to do so. 

In the 80's, Allan Holdsworth's solo material was beyond any fusion or rock I ever heard. It still is. His music is timeless and sounds fresh today. The way he voiced his chords and his leads were totally unique and original. There are several who tried to emulate him but none ever got close. Seems progressive to me.

In the late 80's early 90's prog-metal was developed. Dream Theater's,  Images and Words, blew my socks off. It was as good, if not better, than any of the true prog masterpieces.  

In the 00's, The Mars Volta, Animals as Leaders, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, and Between the Buried and Me were making music that sounded totally original. Pushing boundaries, progressing. 

In the 10's, Thank You Scientist, The Aristocrats, Covet, ni, etc. are pushing boundaries and making progressive music. There are more choices and more excellent bands out there to explore today than anytime in progs history.

If you want to be stuck in the 70's and refuse to acknowledge that prog has progressed, that's your opinion. If it's because modern-prog is not your pint of brew, then your logic is flawed. 

Cheers to "still-contributing-worthwhile-prog" artists/bands.

Bahh......Your digging for a fight that ain't gonna happen buddy boy LOL. My "opinion" is that all the music/artists you named post 80s is not progressive rock, it all came from the progressive rock of the 70s and what was going on then, the influence is there but that's it. I have zero problem calling all that music PROG but that's about as far as it goes. 
No way shape or form will I call Dream Theater progressive rock or progressive metal, prog-metal for sure. Your comment about I&W is super subjective, which true prog masterpiece are you referring to? Dark Side Of the Moon, In the Court, CTTE, TAAB, APP??? Good luck with all that...LOL

The artists and music I listen to post 80s are pretty much all influenced by the progressive rock of yesteryear, as well I will always listen to the artists that started it all back then.......I don't refuse to acknowledge anything.
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No reason for fight. Big smile








Edited by David_D - May 26 2022 at 11:54
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Bahh......Your digging for a fight that ain't gonna happen buddy boy
Not sure why most of your replies to me are hostile. Care to explain?

Anyway, enjoy your True Prog Club, BUDDY BOY.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - May 26 2022 at 11:42
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Bahh......Your digging for a fight that ain't gonna happen buddy boy
Not sure why most of your replies to me are hostile. Care to explain?

Anyway, enjoy your True Prog Club, BUDDY BOY.

Not sure why everything everyone replies to you is taken by you as negative, hostile, dismissive.....care to explain?

True Prog Club rules, only those with the secret password are allowed in. LOL
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:


.....and then starting from the nineties it seems that prog has been reborn, and today, if we consider prog every form of contamination, prog is rampant, but in reality is no longer true prog. It is the music that changes, that keeps up with the time.....

Overall, therefore, I tend to consider only (or almost) the albums of the seventies to be masterpieces of true prog.......

Clap
 

For me this is pretty much it. True Progressive Rock in the late 60s to late 70's, from there it turned into ProgRock and 90s forward it is rock music with prog tendencies, but not true Prog let alone Progressive.

It's fairly simple for me.
True prog? Wacko  This seems to be a recurring theme. Just because you don't like prog music of today doesn't mean it's contaminated, or rock music with prog tendencies. Progressive music, to me, is defined as something that sounds different and pushes boundaries. The masterpieces of "true prog" were contaminated with influences of classical, jazz and pop music.  

I'll mention a few artists I believe are more progressive than the moldy true-proggers. Our esteemed reviewers at PA could list more "still-contributing-worthwhile-prog" artists/bands than I could, so please feel free to do so. 

In the 80's, Allan Holdsworth's solo material was beyond any fusion or rock I ever heard. It still is. His music is timeless and sounds fresh today. The way he voiced his chords and his leads were totally unique and original. There are several who tried to emulate him but none ever got close. Seems progressive to me.

In the late 80's early 90's prog-metal was developed. Dream Theater's,  Images and Words, blew my socks off. It was as good, if not better, than any of the true prog masterpieces.  

In the 00's, The Mars Volta, Animals as Leaders, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, and Between the Buried and Me were making music that sounded totally original. Pushing boundaries, progressing. 

In the 10's, Thank You Scientist, The Aristocrats, Covet, ni, etc. are pushing boundaries and making progressive music. There are more choices and more excellent bands out there to explore today than anytime in progs history.

If you want to be stuck in the 70's and refuse to acknowledge that prog has progressed, that's your opinion. If it's because modern-prog is not your pint of brew, then your logic is flawed. 

Cheers to "still-contributing-worthwhile-prog" artists/bands.

Bahh......Your digging for a fight that ain't gonna happen buddy boy LOL. My "opinion" is that all the music/artists you named post 80s is not progressive rock, it all came from the progressive rock of the 70s and what was going on then, the influence is there but that's it. I have zero problem calling all that music PROG but that's about as far as it goes. 
No way shape or form will I call Dream Theater progressive rock or progressive metal, prog-metal for sure. Your comment about I&W is super subjective, which true prog masterpiece are you referring to? Dark Side Of the Moon, In the Court, CTTE, TAAB, APP??? Good luck with all that...LOL

The artists and music I listen to post 80s are pretty much all influenced by the progressive rock of yesteryear, as well I will always listen to the artists that started it all back then.......I don't refuse to acknowledge anything.


I agree with Catcher10.

It's clear that what I am saying are only my opinions.

We are here called to say how to describe or define or classify the prog, and I said how I do it.

When I came to this site, I was amazed to find some of my favorite artists that I had never considered prog.

I give three examples from three different eras:
Tim Buckley,
Talk Talk
Sigur Ros.

I don't consider their music "true prog", as I called the original prog, that of the Seventies, but the fact remains that some of their albums are masterpieces, perhaps better than many historical prog albums of the Seventies. For example Lorca, Starsailor and Spirit of Eden are more beautiful (my opinion) than any EL&P album, or Camel, and actually even Genesis and Yes.

So, I'm not saying that beautiful music was only made in the Seventies.

There are many bands today that make beautiful music, but, in my opinion, they make music that isn't true prog. It is a very different, evolved prog that you can consider as you want.

Of the bands you mentioned, for example, I think The Mars Volta have made two albums that are very good, if not masterpieces, but I don't consider them true prog.

There are also some bands that still play true prog, and maybe they are as good as those of the seventies: but I haven't found them yet, the ones I see on display in the progarchives ranking seem to me good but very epigonic (I gave three examples: Wobler, Anglagard and All Traps, just because they are in the Top 100 rankings). I like Dream Theater and undoubtedly they invented prog metal, but in my opinion the prog structures of their songs are quite epigonic. But they invented the prog metal sound, which is good for them and for the music. Opeth are also good, they are definitely prog, I would say almost true prog
;-) but they also seem epigonic to me, very schematic, less creative than the phenomenon of the Seventies.
Tool instead are less prog... more original and creative, but their music doesn't convince me.
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Not sure why everything everyone replies to you is taken by you as negative, hostile, dismissive.....care to explain?

I'm afraid to say, Catcher, that it's not the way, I've experienced my interacting with Grumpy.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Not sure why everything everyone replies to you is taken by you as negative, hostile, dismissive.....care to explain?

I'm afraid to say, Catcher, that it's not the way, I've experienced my interacting with Grumpy.


That's good......as I was starting to get really worried! LOL
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Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Not sure why everything everyone replies to you is taken by you as negative, hostile, dismissive.....care to explain?
I'm afraid to say, Catcher, that it's not the way, I've experienced my interacting with Grumpy.
That's good......as I was starting to get really worried! LOL

LOL
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