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JD View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Will Earth become the next Mars?


Yes, Mars could become a solution (if done right - that means kick out private firms from space), but there are already people who've bought property on the Red Planet and will claim ownership. It's a lost cause, if you ask me.
Sean you missed the point here, He's saying Earth will BECOME the next Mars, not that we should go there as a solution. Make sense?
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Will Earth become the next Mars?


Yes, Mars could become a solution (if done right - that means kick out private firms from space), but there are already people who've bought property on the Red Planet and will claim ownership. It's a lost cause, if you ask me.
Sean you missed the point here, He's saying Earth will BECOME the next Mars, not that we should go there as a solution. Make sense?

Not the way I read it, because the analogy didn't stick: Mars was never occupied by an "intelligent" life and most likely was never a living planet, despite having some living organism. If we are to poison our planet, it will maybe end up more like Venus (not that Venus ever had an intelligent life either. 


Edited by Sean Trane - May 03 2022 at 09:01
let's just stay above the moral melee
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

I don't want to undermine what is a sincere and thought provoking OP but I'll give this 3 pages before it gets locked. The best case scenario would be for me to be proven wrong and we have a civil, erudite and adult debate about a very polarizing topic. Secure the ornaments....

Don't worry Iain, whether it does or not doesn't really matter.   It has to be discussed.   Besides, if anyone badly trolls this thing I'll just start a fistfight and get the thing closed right away.
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^ Well we are on to the second page already, and apart from Ompha’s predictable attempts to derail (I would say troll, but I think she’s deluded enough to be sincere) the discussion, we still seem to be quite civil and respectful. Maybe there is hope for us, yet?



Edited by nick_h_nz - May 03 2022 at 11:56
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I'm pro-choice. If someone down the road has an abortion, I won't even know about it. It doesn't affect me. There's enough people in the world, and plenty of unwanted children. I'm in favor of more (free) condoms, morning-after plll (RU482), etc.. But this is at the bottom of issues for me when it comes to politics. I also don't like that it's used as a litmus test. Someone could be wrong on every other issue, but again, it's a litmus test. Just like guns, which I've changed positions on, but that's for another thread.

People were talking about the leak being done to get the public to react, thinking it would get the court to reverse a decision they've already made? I don't like the idea of mob rule. The law shouldn't be political, or influenced by mob rule.
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"Gallup polls show Americans support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021, only sightly higher than in 1975 (76%), and the Pew Research Center finds 59% of adults believe abortion should be legal, compared to 60% in 1995—though there has been fluctuation, with support dropping to a low of 47% in 2009.

The share of Americans in Gallup’s poll who say abortion is morally acceptable reached a record high of 47% in May, up from a low of 36% in 2009, and a Quinnipiac poll found support for abortion being legal in all or most cases reached a near-record high in September with 63% support."


-- That's from Forbes, BTW, not exactly a liberal bastion.




Edited by Atavachron - May 03 2022 at 15:18
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Maybe the most significant political issue in the U.S. for the past forty years, it's possible the Supreme Court may return the rights around controlling abortion to the individual States and prevent the Federal government from protecting women nationally, according to a leaked document.

As appalling as this is, will this give the Democrats a much-needed boost this year and in 2024 ?   Or will this provide political capital for Republicans ?  

Most importantly, how do you feel about an adult woman's right to decide what to do with her body ?



Completely reactionary and indefensible. A pox on both the Republicans and Democrats.
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^ Some good points if a little too bombastic--   I do wonder if Planned Parenthood will ironically become common in Anti-Choice states if only to help parents deal with a child they have no way of supporting and had no intention of having. 
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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No truer words have I ever heard spoken than what I heard from an 88 year old woman today:

"If men could get pregnant, there would be abortion clinics on every corner."
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Points: 65616 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2022 at 20:42
^ Then there's Amanda Duarte's statement.  She meant well and I get what she's saying but it came out oh so very, very wrong :

"I do wonder how these white-supremacist lawmakers would feel if their little white daughters were raped and impregnated by black men."
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I borrowed this from a Facebook post, as it sums up my feelings on the subject:

I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.
I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.
I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.
I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.
I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives.
You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!
*Copied and pasted, please do the same*
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I'm ok with people being anti-abortion and pro-life as long as they pay these women to have unwanted children or agree to raise them themselves. The thing is none of these pro-lifers would be prepared or want to raise these children. Are they going to cheer these women on in the delivery room when they do give birth? To be honest, I really don't see why people care what women do or don't do with their bodies. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - May 03 2022 at 21:18
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Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I borrowed this from a Facebook post, as it sums up my feelings on the subject:
I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding

Important text.   It won't sway the Psychotic Right, but it could influence someone undecided.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I borrowed this from a Facebook post, as it sums up my feelings on the subject:
I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding

Important text.   It won't sway the Psychotic Right, but it could influence someone undecided.



Even worse, I'm pro-Lizzie who found herself pregnant against her will and decide to undergo an abortion and have the nay-sayers saying she's using abortion  as if it was a normal birth-control method.
What most pro-life arseholes don't realize is how mind-damaging it is to have someone going up your entrails and perform a still-dangerous act. Even done by specialists, an abortion remains a dangerous act with sometimes dramatic health hazards, let alone psychological consequences.

If my mother hadn't had had abortion in the late-50"s early-60's on three occasions (remember the pill didn't exist and most males wouldn't wear a condom and promised to "withdraw before ejaculation" and then "forgot to")  performed by her female gynecologists,  she'd probably have never met my dad ands I wouldn't be here. 
Let alone to think in what psychological and physical state state that dear woman (who raised three great kids) would be in today.


.



/ 


Edited by Sean Trane - May 04 2022 at 02:36
let's just stay above the moral melee
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It's amazing to me that abortion is still a thing in the 21st century. Birth control, which is not on the chopping block, should have made abortions a thing of the past. I'm not saying this for victims of rape or in cases of abortions for medically necessary means, but somehow we've dropped the ball on women getting pregnant when they don't want to. In most instances, there is no excuse for it. Planned Parenthood and other social programs supply the pill or other means at virtually no cost. Wtf?
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^ women can still get pregnant on the pill. There is no birth control that is 100% effective.

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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ women can still get pregnant on the pill. There is no birth control that is 100% effective.
That's obvious, but the main problem is lower income women going without. A lot of them. We need to do better in that regard.

Edited by SteveG - May 04 2022 at 08:42
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ women can still get pregnant on the pill. There is no birth control that is 100% effective.
That's obvious, but the main problem is lower income women going without. A lot of them. We need to do better in that regard.


You said birth control should've made abortion a thing of the past so if it's obvious you wouldn't have made that comment.

Whatever the case i don't really get involved in this topic often because it's basically the blind leading the blind.

Firstly, in the modern world self-induced morning after contraception is easily obtained through natural herbal remedies.

Secondly, there is a difference between the US Republic and the US corporation.

Only corporate franchises aka citizens are subject to the corporate policies.

True most are still woefully unaware of these escape mechanisms but in the last few years the # of US nationals who have redesignated their status has risen from a mere 50 thousand to over 5 million.

In other words if  you are not a corporate franchise of the parent corporation then absolutely ZERO of their policies apply. Yeah it's more complicated when ignorance is the norm but in terms of legal jurisdiction it is true.

This means abortion is a privacy right. Privacy does not exist when one is subject to the rules and regulations of a corporation through contractual consent. Once these contracts are rescinded there is no jurisdiction of the three tiers of law that apply therefore abortion is a private matter outside of the jurisdiction of the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) which is the basis for Maritime Admiralty Law which is what all nation states are based upon.

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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

It's amazing to me that abortion is still a thing in the 21st century. Birth control, which is not on the chopping block, should have made abortions a thing of the past. I'm not saying this for victims of rape or in cases of abortions for medically necessary means, but somehow we've dropped the ball on women getting pregnant when they don't want to. In most instances, there is no excuse for it. Planned Parenthood and other social programs supply the pill or other means at virtually no cost. Wtf?

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ women can still get pregnant on the pill. There is no birth control that is 100% effective.
That's obvious, but the main problem is lower income women going without. A lot of them. We need to do better in that regard.


You said birth control should've made abortion a thing of the past so if it's obvious you wouldn't have made that comment.

Whatever the case i don't really get involved in this topic often because it's basically the blind leading the blind.

Firstly, in the modern world self-induced morning after contraception is easily obtained through natural herbal remedies.


Puppy, never mind what Steve says (one thing and its exact opposite in the next post)Wacko

This thread is mostly males discussing an issue that should concern women only (or mostly).

It's amazing to see that an  Censored unknowing male Pig would imagine women prefer using abortion to other methods. This is outrageous and preposterous: like not knowing women at all and the trauma of having surgical tools toying inside their uterus.

Sure, the pill - once presented as the miracle solution - has been decried in the last 15 years because of increased health risk (including strokes)  was (and still is) the most efficient solution. So have vaccines of all sorts (this is why we're seeing some illnesses reappearing four/five decades after we thought they'd been eradicated.. That came with the birth of social networks crap. 

I bet you that 80 or 90% of the women looking to abort are upper-class students/professional in order of not interrupting (or ending) their career, rather than lower class.

Steve's stance is pro-conservative and sides with Drump and Pootang. Evil SmileNuke
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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prefer lifting our pen
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