Modern Prog: First Album

David_D wrote: Psychedelic Paul wrote: ^ I'm rapidly going off Avant Prog, having listened to the debut albums by the Cardiacs, Guapo & Present and given them all the thumbs down, which doesn't bode well for me liking the upcoming debuts by Swans or Thinking Plague either.  Good luck anyway, if you must listen to them.

suitkees wrote: Oh boy oh boy, how can a symph prog clone beat one of the most (if not the most) original and successful neo-prog bands? I must be getting old...

David_D wrote: Psychedelic Paul wrote: I like Anglagard too, but for me, and maybe this is just hubris, but Anglagard can't compete with any of the Neo Prog bands in the poll.  Yes, this says more about your taste than about other facts.

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - April 16 2022 at 04:05

^^ You surprise me Paul, production issues aside (greatly improved on the IO remaster), it's a very assured solid 4 star debut, show-casing plenty of talent and promise. Personally, I've always been very fond of it. Of course, much has been made of the F.U section in 'The Water'; NM refused to sing the lyrics a relatively short while afterwards, having converted to Christianity, but you don't tend to portray tortured human angst my singing 'Oh, fiddlesticks', do you? Don't let this put you off; their discography, especially during the NM years, is exceptionally strong.

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - April 16 2022 at 06:46

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - April 16 2022 at 09:04

I feel like we are going in circles. I've talked about Swans with Paul multiple times going back to late last year and I feel like your "avant prog" message yesterday is so much like what you have written before. I have told you before that Swans sound changes over time, and would not expect you to like the early period albums. I actually have not heard people call Filth avant prog -- I don't think Swans is really in PA for the early albums. I think I told you before that you would really dislike the early albums, you said you had been warned by Ian, but you were warned before that, and you still complain? I do feel like you aren't listening and absorbing sometimes -- maybe your conservative, other than fashion sense, mindset -- liberal seems a dirty word to you as you used it disparagingly, but to me it comes from the word liberty and means free-thinker and with it comes an open mind.

Here's my last message from early this month:

Logan wrote: Psychedelic Paul wrote: I prophesy disaster wrote: Psychedelic Paul wrote: Some people have criticised my favourite YES album - The Quest - but I just think, so what, get over it.     I generally don't criticise people's taste in music... people's tastes are what they are. I just accept that your taste in music doesn't include the more avant-garde side of prog.   The Cardiacs obviously have a heart-felt following here amongst their many fans, but having listened to their crazy carnival debut and given it the thumbs down, it doesn't bode well for me liking the other three Avant Prog bands in the poll either:- Guapo; Swans & Thinking Plague.  I posted a track off a Swans albums that you said you liked before. I think I already said this to you, but it depends upon which Swans as the music is different depending on the period and album and even albums are quite Eclectic. I would not expect you to like the first four albums, Filth, Greed, Cop, Holy Money, I think you might enjoy parts of Children of God, and maybe like The Burning World (which is less dark and much more commercial sounding) and music off White Light From the Mouth of Infinity and The Great Annihilator. Swans can be pretty depressing, and I think you would rather generally upbeat music. With Thinking Plague, I like the earlier material more than later material, but you might be different. With Cardiacs, I think you could likely find music to enjoy but not really get into the band in a big way. I'd sooner recommend The 180 G's cover album Singin' to God. As for Guapo, I love it but wouldn't think it to your tastes. Like others, they do change over time. Again l this is where the way you listen would create problems for many. A lot of bands are diverse and one you might not like where they start but like later material, and any combination (I would not want to judge a band by a small part of the discography or wish to be alienated because I feel like I need to listen to all of the albums by a band). I commonly research and check out samples to try to find the material that I think will best suit me at first That might open my ear to more music, but I often try to start with that which I think will be most accessible to me. You said you liked "Blind" before which was released on a Swans album (and on M. Gira's solo album). But none of those bands would I particularly recommend to you, although you might be able to find individual pieces that you enjoy. Here's Blind again if you forgot it (originally released on an M. Gira, the person behind Swans, solo album: In the Swans universe, I might sooner recommend M. Gira (the man behind it) other project, Angels of Light. Swans started off being quite brutal, then later got more melodic (after Jarboe joined).

While I don't really care if you like any Swans albums (and its listed in Post-Rock here, I'd put it in Eclectic), it's not until Children of God that I currently get really interested in the band (the next few after that especially I think you would find music to enjoy, and some from leaving meaning maybe...). Swans would be hit or miss for most people due to the diversity. And not many would like Filth here, but I did a Swans poll and that was one person's favourite (for some they don't like the change of direction).

It is that problem with your insistence on starting at the beginning of a discography and working your way up. I generally would rather try to start with the material that it seems (from my research) that I will enjoy the most from an act. Also, it means these poll series take too long, for my tastes, to get through. I'm not interested in Swans here until you get to the fifth album. I kind of like the idea of you limiting to ones you already know and like and have researched -- and that way one hopefully can avoid a certain negativity and you're coming from a place of knowledge and it will be less that discussions keeping going on circles without making much positive progress (progress where we have learned and adapted more from the discussion).


Edited by Logan - April 16 2022 at 09:20

Psychedelic Paul wrote: ^ Maybe I should post a disclaimer with each of my brief album reviews:- "These are the personal views of Psychedelic Paul and DO NOT represent the views of Prog Archives as a whole."

^^ And here I would not call those bands great, to each his or her own.

Maybe if you ever get though Swans, you could do a companion video to this from the perspective of a non-fan:



EDIT: My point was not that you need a disclaimer, it was that we are going in circles in some ways like prior conversation isn't informing present thoughts much (a lack of synthesis). And maybe consider moving away from your whole discography, must start from the beginning policy (still don't understand why you tend to insist on that).

Edited by Logan - April 16 2022 at 09:50

Cristi wrote: Psychedelic Paul wrote: ^ Maybe I should post a disclaimer with each of my brief album reviews:- "These are the personal views of Psychedelic Paul and DO NOT represent the views of Prog Archives as a whole."  this can go for many people around here, but you've jumped the shark a few times.