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Which self-indulgent album is your favourite?
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JD View Drop Down
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Points: 18446 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 08:26
Funny no one has mentioned Lamb Lies Down yet.
I'm not sure I really get the label 'self indulgent'. Maybe Shatner's The Transformed Man. Pretty self indulgent to think he was worthy of an album.
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Funny no one has mentioned Lamb Lies Down yet.
I'm not sure I really get the label 'self indulgent'. Maybe Shatner's The Transformed Man. Pretty self indulgent to think he was worthy of an album.
Self indulgence is something I see a lot when I read about prog. Just like the term dinosaurs. Loaded terms to dismiss the entire 70's prog scene.
  
I indeed would have expected the Lamb as well.
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It's very rare that the popular music marketplace countenances 'doing what you like.' as being viable or even lucrative. I think the late 60's and early 70's were a miraculous conflation of consumer sovereignty begetting artistic freedom that we will never experience again. There was a fleeting time when music was an indivisible whole i.e. before marketing foisted the phony brand wars upon us where Rock, Jazz, Blues, Funk, Country, Soul, Classical et al became conflated with social class. I'd love to be proven wrong about that.
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Originally posted by WJA-K WJA-K wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Funny no one has mentioned Lamb Lies Down yet.
I'm not sure I really get the label 'self indulgent'. Maybe Shatner's The Transformed Man. Pretty self indulgent to think he was worthy of an album.
Self indulgence is something I see a lot when I read about prog. Just like the term dinosaurs. Loaded terms to dismiss the entire 70's prog scene.
  
I indeed would have expected the Lamb as well.

The term "self indulgent" is usually used by those who dislike the genre rather than those who do. Confused
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JD View Drop Down
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Points: 18446 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 08:52
True, but isn't it supposed to be a reflection of the artist and their motivation (inspiration?) for doing a recording? Hence SELF indulgent. Otherwise it would be FAN indulgent or MONEY indulgent.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

[QUOTE=WJA-K][QUOTE=JD]
The term "self indulgent" is usually used by those who dislike the genre rather than those who do. Confused
Many reviews here mention the term self indulgent. By people who like the genre Smile


Edited by WJA-K - March 29 2022 at 09:12
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Define indulgent or self-indulgent.TongueLOL

1- mindlessly-long soloing in jam bands records 

2- mindless/uninteresting concept drowned out in a sea of overstretched ideas (Tubular bells and other Oldfield albums)

3- artistes repeating their usual formula for 3586th time in a row  (then TFK, Transatlantic and Steven Wilson are prime culprits, despite the KS/TD 50 years carreer)

4- any combinations (or all) of the above

Personally, I find that jazz has a lot more indulgent albums then in prog
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Tales
Lamb
War of the Worlds
BSS
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Too many to mention, even I don't think of them as "self-indulgent" - but some over the top, yes, like Thick as a Brick.

Originally posted by WJA-K WJA-K wrote:

A common theme involving prog - especially in the 70's - is that most acts fell into the trap of self-indulgence. This would be one of the main reasons for the rapid decline of prog in the second half of the seventies.

As I see it, the explanation is way more complex than that. Smile


Edited by David_D - March 29 2022 at 13:53
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

probably Tales from Topo, but there are many--  Meddle, Passion Play, SRtS.

What a glorious time for music.


What is SRtS? I’ve tried and can’t work out what it’s an acronym for?
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Points: 15124 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 14:39
Originally posted by WJA-K WJA-K wrote:

Self indulgence is something I see a lot when I read about prog. Just like the term dinosaurs. Loaded terms to dismiss the entire 70's prog scene.

right, pretty much so
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Points: 18446 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 15:58
Thanks to José for the image.
(Yeah, I lifted it from a Vinyl Forum post.)
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Points: 8951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 19:51
I mean this in the nicest possible ways, but the last few albums by Nightwish fit the bill for me
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Points: 3365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 02:09
Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

probably Tales from Topo, but there are many--  Meddle, Passion Play, SRtS.

What a glorious time for music.


What is SRtS? I’ve tried and can’t work out what it’s an acronym for?

I spent a good hour or two of research trying to find what it's an acronym for, and I'm still empty-handed LOL
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Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by Duddick Duddick wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

probably Tales from Topo, but there are many--  Meddle, Passion Play, SRtS.

What a glorious time for music.


What is SRtS? I’ve tried and can’t work out what it’s an acronym for?

I spent a good hour or two of research trying to find what it's an acronym for, and I'm still empty-handed LOL

SRtS?! Confused I can't figure it out either. I bet it's something obvious and famous, too. LOL
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Points: 3365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 02:15
I literally looked up all the major 70s prog bands on Wikipedia and there's seriously nothing with that abbreviation, lol
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Oh come on people get with it, I didn't add the 't' to the Song Remains the Same...and only ProgRelated here.   
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Oh come on people get with it, I didn't add the 't' to the Song Remains the Same...and only ProgRelated here.   

Moby Dick and Dazed & Confused are definitely self indulgent indeed. 
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Points: 3365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2022 at 03:04
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Oh come on people get with it, I didn't add the 't' to the Song Remains the Same...and only ProgRelated here.   

Not gonna lie, I definitely wouldn't have gotten that unless you said it. I think it was because I was expecting it to be another full-fledged prog band like the others LOL
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Why oh why, there is no light
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Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

"A frequent criticism at the time was of 'self indulgence'. In practice, when you let rip this is always a risk. In principle, to consider acting in accordance with one's musical sense-of-rightness as indulgent is a terrifying commentary upon the extent to which our culture has become aberrant in its values and out-of-touch with its innate humanity. Young musicians of the time who were self-indulgent were not, as far as my perception went, playing what was true for them but what they believed to be in fashion."

--Robert Fripp, 1992

So is he saying that the Golden Era of Prog was young musicians playing 'self-indulgent' music they didn't believe in just because it was fashionable? That's what I understand from it anyway, and in my idealistic mind I'd like to believe that wasn't true much of the time.
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