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Which self-indulgent album is your favourite?
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WJA-K View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

[QUOTE=WJA-K][QUOTE=JD]
The term "self indulgent" is usually used by those who dislike the genre rather than those who do. Confused
Many reviews here mention the term self indulgent. By people who like the genre Smile


Edited by WJA-K - March 29 2022 at 09:12
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True, but isn't it supposed to be a reflection of the artist and their motivation (inspiration?) for doing a recording? Hence SELF indulgent. Otherwise it would be FAN indulgent or MONEY indulgent.
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Originally posted by WJA-K WJA-K wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Funny no one has mentioned Lamb Lies Down yet.
I'm not sure I really get the label 'self indulgent'. Maybe Shatner's The Transformed Man. Pretty self indulgent to think he was worthy of an album.
Self indulgence is something I see a lot when I read about prog. Just like the term dinosaurs. Loaded terms to dismiss the entire 70's prog scene.
  
I indeed would have expected the Lamb as well.

The term "self indulgent" is usually used by those who dislike the genre rather than those who do. Confused
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It's very rare that the popular music marketplace countenances 'doing what you like.' as being viable or even lucrative. I think the late 60's and early 70's were a miraculous conflation of consumer sovereignty begetting artistic freedom that we will never experience again. There was a fleeting time when music was an indivisible whole i.e. before marketing foisted the phony brand wars upon us where Rock, Jazz, Blues, Funk, Country, Soul, Classical et al became conflated with social class. I'd love to be proven wrong about that.
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Funny no one has mentioned Lamb Lies Down yet.
I'm not sure I really get the label 'self indulgent'. Maybe Shatner's The Transformed Man. Pretty self indulgent to think he was worthy of an album.
Self indulgence is something I see a lot when I read about prog. Just like the term dinosaurs. Loaded terms to dismiss the entire 70's prog scene.
  
I indeed would have expected the Lamb as well.
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Funny no one has mentioned Lamb Lies Down yet.
I'm not sure I really get the label 'self indulgent'. Maybe Shatner's The Transformed Man. Pretty self indulgent to think he was worthy of an album.
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Hi,

Weird. 

Strange.

Odd.

I guess that Shakespeare is the most self indulgent of them all!

Ohhh wait ... Mozart ... too many notes!

Beethoven and Tchaikovsky ... too many instruments doing the same thing and also doing different things!

Stravinsky ... why all the weirdness and changes?

Tangerine Dream. Take the dreamer (EF) out and the music sounds machine-like, and not fluid! 

Oh, forgot the most self indulgent of all ... KLAUS SCHULZE. I guess that over 75 CD's of music is not enough!

Tongue

Wink


Edited by moshkito - March 29 2022 at 08:20
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I suppose any double album of prog could be considered self-indulgent, and with that in mind, I vote for Tales from Topographic Oceans. 
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Probably Atom Heart Mother.
Nice one! I love this one too.
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when It comes to at least the title track of Atom Heart Mother, I would have to then say that it’s Ron Geesin’s self-indulgence, and what a glorious thing it is.

From the classic era, I would mention Can’s Tago Mago, Magma’s double-album debut, MDK and others, Soft Machine’s Third and Tangerine Dream’s Zeit. In 90s Prog, Swans’ Soundtracks for the Blind (love this album) and Cardiacs’ Sing to God, and of the past decade, various Swans although Glowing Man is my favourite.
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Probably Atom Heart Mother.
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

BTW: Nice idea for a discussion thread! Kudos, man!

Thank you!

I like your points involving how many bands want to "do prog" nowadays and how this puts the 70's bands in a different light. 
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Points: 8432 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 06:11
I back all of the albums suggested here but for "favorite" I'm gonna second the Focus III LP as it has steadily and continuously grown in my estimation since I first purchased it back in 1977. For example, I used to find most of it intolerable, despite absolutely upholding "Answers? Questions! Questions? Answers!" as one of my absolute favorite songs. (I adore Jan Akkerman.) Now I listen with reverence and awe through every song, even the two "Anonymous" pieces that I used to hate (precisely for the endless self-indulgent noodling and pseudo-cerebral form).

So much of Neo Prog feels self-indulgent because the "epic" form feels so unnecessary or forced--as if the musicians decided, "Let's do a prog epic" instead of having a song/story idea that required an epic form in order to satisfy it's telling.


BTW: Nice idea for a discussion thread! Kudos, man!



Edited by BrufordFreak - March 29 2022 at 06:12
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A Passion Play and Tales top my list, and I really love them.
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Points: 145 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJA-K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2022 at 05:33
Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

"A frequent criticism at the time was of 'self indulgence'. In practice, when you let rip this is always a risk. In principle, to consider acting in accordance with one's musical sense-of-rightness as indulgent is a terrifying commentary upon the extent to which our culture has become aberrant in its values and out-of-touch with its innate humanity. Young musicians of the time who were self-indulgent were not, as far as my perception went, playing what was true for them but what they believed to be in fashion."

--Robert Fripp, 1992
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"A frequent criticism at the time was of 'self indulgence'. In practice, when you let rip this is always a risk. In principle, to consider acting in accordance with one's musical sense-of-rightness as indulgent is a terrifying commentary upon the extent to which our culture has become aberrant in its values and out-of-touch with its innate humanity. Young musicians of the time who were self-indulgent were not, as far as my perception went, playing what was true for them but what they believed to be in fashion."

--Robert Fripp, 1992
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Originally posted by Rick1 Rick1 wrote:

Works Vol. 1 - not 'arf!

Works for me too! My favourite ELP album. Alright? Not 'arf! Smile
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Probably my fave piece of OTT self-indulgence has always been 'Relayer', to be honest...
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Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

If we're not including strictly prog albums, I would have to go with Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness by The Smashing Pumpkins. An extremely self-indulgent 2-hour record that, despite its pretentious nature, is an incredibly solid prog-influenced alt-rock record. Billy Corgan might have overextended his reach, but there are only a few songs on the album that I'd actually cut despite its length
Mellon Collie counts for me! I agree it's heavily prog-influenced. That mellotron on the opener!


Edited by WJA-K - March 29 2022 at 05:08
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Works Vol. 1 - not 'arf!
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