Symphonic Metal: First Album |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40222 |
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I've been a forum moderator before too on a music site where "off-topicness" was positively encouraged.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43717 |
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I've never thought staying on topic as rigidness. This reminds me of story from long ago of an old friend of mine who started learning German and knowing I spoke a little bit said to me genuinely enthusiastic : "Ask me something, please!" "wie heißt du?" (What's your name?) To which he answered: "Ich lerne Deutsch." That's kind of the discussion here in this thread.
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essexboyinwales
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 27 2015 Location: Bridgend Status: Offline Points: 4970 |
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But as has already been mentioned Paul, this approach really doesn’t work very well, as we’ll be hitting album 4 in about 3 years’ time at this rate😂 |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40222 |
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^ I listened to some Legendary Tales today and I'll be At Sixes and Sevens tomorrow, so only another eight albums to go before we Enter Round 2 in the Eternal Endless Infinity of polls.
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40222 |
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SIRENIA: From Norway they are coming, alongside Leaves' Eyes featured earlier. I'm still At Sixes and Sevens whether or not I like their first album, as there's a growling cookie monster running rampant again. Hopefully, Sirenia will grow on me with time, like a fine wine and not like a fungus. Edited by Psychedelic Paul - March 18 2022 at 12:58 |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40222 |
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1989: Stratovarius - Fright Night - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mK3U65VfSQ4HU4lnBWX9prDwXOq47jEOg
I'm just waiting now for Cristi to tell me that Stratovarius aren't Symphonic Metal.
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - March 19 2022 at 02:43 |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43717 |
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Stratovarius aren't Symphonic Metal. Like that?
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40222 |
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Yes, just like that. So who do you suggest I replace them with?
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43717 |
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There is a long list of bands when/if you scroll down. You can choose, do a little research, look for listening links.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Again, as per my post in the Symphonic Heaven thread, if Paul is getting the bands from Wiki, then Symphonic Metal is one of the genres given to Stratovarius (along with neoclassical metal, power metal, and prog metal). I also know of several people who describe Stratovarius as either symphonic metal, or symphonic power metal. Personally, I do think, as stated somewhere previously in either this thread or the other, that Paul’s idea of what constitutes symphonic metal is a complete clusterf&*k of disparate bands that really ought not to be put together the way he has. But I can understand why he has done so, particularly if he uses Wiki as his main source. And while I can also understand why you suggest other sources that have a more rigid and narrow definition of what makes symphonic metal, I actually think you are each as right as the other - which makes the good-natured arguing between the two of you even more humorous than it is already. Symphonic as an adjective for any genre is as vague and ambiguous as prog is for any genre. If there are symphonic elements to music, that is enough for many listeners to describe the music as symphonic - and I see nothing wrong with that. Just as if there are prog elements to music, that is enough for many to describe the music as prog (even if it were never prog “enough” to be listed in PA). Wiki gives prog metal as one of the genres to describe System of a Down, for example. Are they prog “enough” for PA? No? Would I expect to see them on PA? No? Do I think of them as prog myself? Yes. So I would never complain about seeing someone describe System as a prog metal band, because I can hear exactly why they are described that way by some (and agree). If this were the Symphonic Archives, and there were clear symphonic genres within the archives, then it would make more sense to me to criticise Paul’s choices. But it’s not, so I see no problem with him taking whatever definition of symphonic he likes, and everything he has listed could be described as symphonic metal - even if it might not ever make it into a hypothetical Symphonic Archives. |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43717 |
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Rigid has a negative connotation. Symphonic metal refers to a certain sound, well described in that MMA link. Therion's Theli and Vovin and Nightwish's Oceanborn and Wishmaster is where it all started. Again me being a jerk, you give Paul too much credit.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Rigid is neither negative, nor positive. I implied no negative connotation. You inferred it. That is on you.
Again, you’re not being a jerk. The funny thing is you are probably more stubborn than Paul, as despite his appearance of intransigence, he often takes onboard the suggestions and criticisms od others. (NB, I meant no negative connotation when I said stubborn, either. It is possible to use the words rigid and stubborn, without ascribing any negative connotation. What you imply from it is, of course, up to you, and out of my control.) |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43717 |
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I don't think I'm being stubborn here at all. It's not hat I disagree with him, but some of the things he posted in these two symphonic metal threads I find as being wrong. There is a difference here. Paul baited and I took it, that's on me I guess. I also don't think Paul is open to suggestions, his vague posts and attempts at humor stand proof of that.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Paul often does bait, but more often you see bait where there appears none to my eyes. Perhaps it’s a bit of a boy cried Wolf situation. You’ve seen genuine bait from Paul so often, you now see it everytime. But there is an awful lot that is not bait, which you still rise to as if it were. And if you can’t see that Paul is open to suggestions, then that says more about your stubbornness to see it (or even see your own stubbornness) than anything else. As you say, some of the things Paul posts, you “find as being wrong”. Your own words. Not that the things Paul posts are wrong, but that you find them as wrong. And yes, you’re right, there is a difference there. That’s not to say Paul’s right or wrong, so much as you find yourself unable to see why he has come to the conclusions he has. Given he admits to using Wiki, it doesn’t take much effort to see why he has called all these bands symphonic metal - as all are described as such on Wiki. Does that make Paul wrong? Perhaps. Could you suggest other sources? Yes, and you have. Are they actually any better? Well, that depends on what someone wants to find. As I said, there are plenty of people who have a different understanding of what is or is not prog than what is on PA. Just as there are plenty of people who have a different understanding of what is or is not symphonic metal according to the “better” sources you provided. I tend to agree more with your definition than Paul’s, but I can understand his, and I know plenty of other people who share it, or something more similar than yours and mine. |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40222 |
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SYMPHONY X: another very dubious Symphonic Metal inclusion, probably chosen on account of them having the word "Symphony" in their band-name. Wikipedia isn't going to come to my rescue this time either, as Symphony X are listed primarily as a Progressive Metal band.
1994: Symphony X - Symphony X - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRTGDivutDkcqbQhBsz8cadg1qXHdmE0k Edited by Psychedelic Paul - March 19 2022 at 10:18 |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 40222 |
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The general consensus (which I tend to agree with) seems to be that Stratovarius & Symphony X don't belong in a Symphonic Metal poll, so I've now substituted them for Serenity & Sonata Arctica, both of which happen to slot nicely into alphabetical place in the poll.
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43717 |
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sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but Sonata Arctica does not qualify either. Good power metal, you might like them.
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Psychedelic Paul
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I listened to both bands first before I selected them and I know you don't have much confidence in Wikipedia's genre classifications, but Sonata Arctica are listed there as a Symphonic Power Metal band. The video below sounds symphonic to me. |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Online Points: 43717 |
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power metal bands often do orchestral versions of songs, but overall Sonata Arctica is just a power metal band. Just because you discovered an orchestral version on youtube, it does not mean the band plays symphonic metal.
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Jared
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 19322 |
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to be fair, I think SA finished being a straight up power metal band after Unia (much to the chagrin of the majority of their fan base)... I tended to feel that The Ninth Hour for instance (which is rather a swish album if you give it some airtime) is Power, Symph & Prog in equal parts? of course, you may disagree...
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