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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 17 2022 at 05:58
Growing up in the United States in the 70's prog bands were not called prog. It was classified as rock. Punk, disco, new wave all had labels but prog didn't. Does anyone know when the label progressive rock or prog come to be? My guess in late 80's early 90's.
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Are you making the distinction between prog and progressive rock? Either way, I didn't become aware of the term until the mid-to-late 90s. But that says nothing about when the term originated.
 
I seem to recall the term "jazz-rock" during the 70s, though I think the term "fusion" was more an 80s term.
 
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If I talk to my parents - who were young in the 70's - about prog, they have no idea of what I am talking about. They know it as 'symfonisk rock' (symphonic rock).

In the 70's in Denmark, 'progressive' basically meant 'left wing', so it would be associated with the socialist music movement which was big then, with bands like Røde Mor, Agitpop and Jomfru Ane Band. None of these had much in common with what we now understand as 'prog'.

Also, f.e. in Sweden 'progg' usually refers to the socialist scene (Hoola Bandoola Band, Contact, Nationalteatern et al).
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There's a quite old topic I remembered: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=89567

I had remembered the "progressive rock" term being used in the 60s from seeing it published (I wasn't yet born) not sure about "prog" alone.

As I recall, I became aware of the Prog term in the 80s when a friend put on Yes' Fragile and described it as Prog, but then I thought I even knew the term before then. Maybe he said "progressive rock", I am reasonably confident that I knew that term from earlier but my memory is more fallible than it was. My friend also used that term for Rush's Hemispheres (I think that was in 1986).
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Thanks for replies so far. Maybe other countries labeled it as progressive rock (prog) before The United States?

I am assuming for this discussion that prog and progressive rock are the same thing.

Fusion was labeled so in the 70's. Don't recall it labeled as jazz-rock in the USA though.



Edited by Grumpyprogfan - February 17 2022 at 06:46
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From my experience in the states, I first heard the term 'progressive rock' in the late 60s. The term was used by late night DJs on FM rock stations and it referred to rock music that was geared toward the album, not the hit single. It was somewhat revolutionary at the time for DJs to play a whole album side rather than individual songs.
As far as the term 'prog' goes. I never cared much for that term and do not recall exactly when I first heard it, possibly the early 90s.

Edited by Easy Money - February 17 2022 at 06:52
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In the states, the term jazz rock came first, and later it became fusion. Some people draw a distinction between the two terms, while to others, they are interchangeable.
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Points: 12465 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2022 at 06:51
I remember record stores in the 70's didn't have a progressive rock (prog) section. But country, rock, jazz, classical, imports, all had their own sections.

Prog releases was placed in the rock section. Don't recall where Avant-garde was placed.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - February 17 2022 at 07:00
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Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Are you making the distinction between prog and progressive rock? Either way, I didn't become aware of the term until the mid-to-late 90s.
 
Actually, I'm not sure when I first came across the term "prog"... possibly not until I first came across this site. Unlike "progressive rock" and "art rock", the term "prog" was not a revelation, so I did not notice when I first came across it.
 
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

In the states, the term jazz rock came first, and later it became fusion. Some people draw a distinction between the two terms, while to others, they are interchangeable.
Maybe I remember wrong, as I thought it was otherwise.
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

As far as the term 'prog' goes. I never cared much for that term and do not recall exactly when I first heard it, possibly the early 90s.

I coined it when I was Franc, not Euro. ClownParty
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I remember record stores in the 70's didn't have a progressive rock (prog) section. But country, punk, jazz, classical, imports, all had their own sections.

Prog releases was placed in the rock section. Don't recall where Avant-garde was placed.

That would depend on the record store. I can remember some record stores run by fans of progressive rock who would have separate sections for it.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

In the states, the term jazz rock came first, and later it became fusion. Some people draw a distinction between the two terms, while to others, they are interchangeable.
Maybe I remember wrong, as I thought it was otherwise.
Maybe it depended on locale, but I clearly remember the term jazz rock being around for a couple years before I heard the term fusion.
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So far it appears there is no definate answer. And it depends on where your location in the world is.

From my memories, which aren't always accurate, when the label "alternative" was coined as a musical genre, progressive rock was labeled. Late 80's, early 90's?
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I remember record stores in the 70's didn't have a progressive rock (prog) section. But country, punk, jazz, classical, imports, all had their own sections.

Prog releases was placed in the rock section. Don't recall where Avant-garde was placed.

In the record store I go to, prog artists would be in the "Pop" section (no separate "Rock" section). Other sections were "Classical", "Jazz" (which would include artists such as Mahavishnu Orchestra), "Country", "Easy Listening", "Punk", "Urban" "Alternative Rock", "Metal", "Soundtracks", "Children's Music", and maybe some others I've forgotten.
 
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

So far it appears there is no definate answer. And it depends on where your location in the world is.

From my memories, which aren't always accurate, when the label "alternative" was coined as a musical genre, progressive rock was labeled. Late 80's, early 90's?
Thats odd, lots of people were using the term progressive rock as early as the late 60s. Not just in the states, but also in the English music papers I would read at the library. It was a very common term for non-commercial rock.

Edited by Easy Money - February 17 2022 at 07:44
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According to Edward Macan: Rocking the Classics. English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture . Oxford University Press 1997, page 26, 27:

"A word should be said at this point about the term "progressive rock" itself. In the mid- to late 1960's, this term was appropriated by the underground radio stations and applied to psychedelic music in general; the label was used to distinguish music of this type from the pop music of the pre-psychedelic era. Around 1970, however, the term "progressive rock" came to have a more specific meaning, signifying a style that sought to expand the boundaries of rock on both a stylistic basis (via the use of longer and more involved structural formats) and on a conceptual basis (via the treatment of epic subject matter), mainly through the appropriation of elements associated with classical music. It is this new, more specific application of the term which is clearly intended in the liner notes of Caravan's debut LP of 1969: "Caravan belong to a new breed of progressive rock groups - freeing themselves from the restricting conventions of pop music by using unusual time signatures and sophisticated harmonies. Their arrangements involve variations of tempo and dynamics of almost symphonic complexity.""  


Edited by David_D - February 23 2022 at 01:58
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Well there were rock classifications existing already Jazz-Rock, (Mahavishnu & Co)  Brass-Rock (Chicago and stuff), hard rock, heavy rock, art rock, Glam Rock, etc... but not progressive rock.  In my neck of the woods (Central Canada - Que/Ont) most of the "prog" bands were loosely called Art Rock.
Progressive Rock or "prog" came in the 90's in Europe. Maybe it was already called that sooner in Europe, though.


Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I remember record stores in the 70's didn't have a progressive rock (prog) section. But country, rock, jazz, classical, imports, all had their own sections.

Prog releases was placed in the rock section. Don't recall where Avant-garde was placed.

In Toronto, the Yonge street strip from Dundas to Bloor Street, there was something 10 to 15 record shop and most of them had +/- similar cataloguing as if they consulted each other and set an, unwritten standard method that the clients would find their way easily. Ditto with Montreal St Denis Blvd strip.

Most of the "something" rock were lumped together and the Art/Prog bands were in there. Theoretically most of the JR as well, though not stuff like Weather Report (that would be in jazz section)
I know that Throbbing Gristle & Cabaret Voltaire where in rock  (but we're talking 78/9 instead of 73/4),  but I didn't know about Henry Cow and RIO bands, or else I'd have encountered their records when flipping through the whole rock shelves and would be familiar with their names. So my guess is that they were in the Import bins.   
The Import bins (when present) had many non UK/US prog bands (Gong, Magma, PFM, a lot of Krautrock, etc... I guess Henry Cow and Art Zoyd might have been in those bins. 


 



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Points: 17983 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2022 at 09:17
I don't use the word "prog" to describe King Crimson, JTull, Yes, Genesis. I use the word "prog" to describe bands like Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, Riverside, Marillion, IQ.

So for me the word "prog" came after "progressive", more in the 80's-90's. Prog is merely an attribute of progressive. 
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Thanks to all for the feedback.

Greg, the link you provided was outstanding.
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