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The Cornerstone of Your Prog Supergroup

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:01
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.

Wow! this is a really clever and unexpected idea! I LOVE it! I agree: Kate would be an amazing band leader/cornerstone. Kate Bush, Chris Cutler, Keith Emerson, and Tony Levin (and perhaps Martin Barre)! I like the sound of those choices! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:05
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck3 JohnnyCanuck3 wrote:

My cornerstone for a super prog group would be Neal Morse.
Why?
1.  He's already a cornerstone for several groups, including Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Group, Flying Colors, etc.
2.  He is obviously able to work with a diverse array of artists, as evidenced by the various groups he is in.  Seems to get along well with others, and seems to be well liked.
3.  A prolific songwriter and seems to be comfortable spending endless hours in the studio and/or on tour.
4.  A great musician, playing keyboards, guitar, mandolin, and who knows what else.
5.  Able to work in a number of different styles/genres of music.

Another GREAT selection! I have to agree that he would be a perfect cornerstone! My one hope would be that Neal would also be open to ideas and agendas that might not necessarily be overtly Christian in their message/intent, otherwise, build away. (Perhaps, Johnny, your ideal band is already intact: the Transatlantic lineup is pretty tough to beat!)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:13
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.

Pat Metheny would be my second choice.



Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.

If compositional skills are a requirement, Tony's output, (Stick Men, LTE, LMR, BLS) is lame, compared to Allan. Not sure how much he contributed to KC's music either.

I'm stunned! I am in shock! Have you ever heard or seen Tony Levin? He was by far the most valuable contributor to anything and everything KC did! And he makes it all seem so effortless! (To him it is effortless!) Have you seen/heard the innovations he made to his craft? Do you know how hard it is to play a ChapmanStick much less to play it well?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:44
^I'm shocked that you didn't read my post! I'm not talking about innovations, I'm talking about song writing. I'm not sure how much input Levin had on the 80's KC albums, and Tony's solo material is not good to my ears. That is what I'm talking about - his ability to write good songs. 

Your statement "He was by far the most valuable contributor to anything and everything KC did!" is silly. Most of KC's greatest music was created before he was a member. 

Holdsworth was also an innovator. Ever heard anyone else play the SynthAxe as well as Allan?



Edited by Grumpyprogfan - January 25 2022 at 11:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:44
Hmmm … with a trio, everyone is a cornerstone.

Ron Jarzombek on guitar. Even though he is well known for moving the frontier in Prog Metal, he can play any style and does it well. He has also worked with many artists and is genuinely a nice person who cares more about the music than any other aspect (money, fame, etc.). He is a perfectionist, which would guarantee a top quality product that would be very proggy.

Percussion would be Bill Bruford for obvious reasons. Plus, Ron would need someone who can handle 13/8 time signatures with ease.

Bass, vocals, and keyboards … I’m going with Geddy Lee. Not only can he play and sing complex patterns, but he would ensure that the music includes both extremely proggy songs, as well as radio friendly music of a complex nature. So, Geddy Lee would loosely direct the project.

A nice trio! Just need to give them access to a high quality studio with top notch engineers for a few days. I would love to hear the results!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 21:22
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Predictably from me, the late great Keith Emerson but second choice would be Steve Howe. Such a shame those 2 never worked together.


I believe I read sometime that, well, Keith Emerson wanted his keyboard driven trio from the beginning, but if he could have had one guitar player with him, he would have liked Steve Howe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 21:57
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.


Edited by Mascodagama - January 25 2022 at 22:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2022 at 22:54
For my own choice…

Firstly, I’d exclude from my band all the egotists who had to be the dominant voice, all those who were unreliable because of drink / drugs / mental instability, all those whose vision of music was too narrow to accommodate a variety of approaches, and all those who are known to be ‘difficult’ (i.e. arseholes). You lose a lot of visionaries that way including the likes of Emerson and Fripp, but if you want a working all-star band then it’s a price I think you have to pay.

I’d look for people with a very distinctive contribution to make as both a player and a writer, and who have shown versatility in the kind of musical situations they can operate in. Multi-instrumentalism would be a benefit but not a requirement. Kerry Minnear is a contender, and might well make the band, but the fact that so far as progressive music is concerned he mainly just worked in the context of GG mitigates against him being the cornerstone. Other names that have crossed my mind are Bruford, Levin and Jon Hiseman. But I really feel like picking Mike Keneally. Brilliant on both guitar and keyboards, writes fascinating music, has worked in a multitude of contexts, and seems like a lovely chap.



Edited by Mascodagama - January 25 2022 at 23:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 03:54
I've thought about this over many years, and my main "cornerstone" prog musician would have to be John Wetton! 

The guy could do it all...from glam (Roxy Music) to Genesis covers (his amazing work with Steve Hackett) and everything in between!!  

Having seen him with LTIA era KC, Asia, and UK, I was always impressed at his talent for singing his heart out while playing complicated, fast lines on bass guitar!  

Here, please enjoy!  









Edited by cstack3 - January 26 2022 at 03:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 04:25
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.

Wow! this is a really clever and unexpected idea! I LOVE it! I agree: Kate would be an amazing band leader/cornerstone. Kate Bush, Chris Cutler, Keith Emerson, and Tony Levin (and perhaps Martin Barre)! I like the sound of those choices! 

Kate Bush is a great call but the rest of the band would have to get used to releasing one album every decade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 04:45
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.


Well it is MY supergroup
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 05:49
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Martin Barre. An underrated orchestrator, who can go from blues to rock, classic, jazz, etc.

Sadly, this is an artist that is brought up frequently that I do not appreciate well enough. If it weren't so much for the fact that I find Jethro Tull music so irritating, I might explore more. Do you have any suggestions of his play outside of Tull?

Try his solo output. The Martin Barre bad is quite remarkable. “Back to Steel” and “The Road Less Traveled” don’t have any Tull songs, and Martin’s own writings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 06:11
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.


Well it is MY supergroup
True enough! I would actually be interested to hear who else would get into it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 06:57
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.


Well it is MY supergroup
True enough! I would actually be interested to hear who else would get into it.

Chris Cutler - Drums
Robert Fripp - Guitar
Michel Berckmans - Bassoon/Oboe
Carla Kihlstedt - Violin
William Kopecky - Bass
Dave Stewart - Keys
Lars Hollmer - Accordion
Shabaka Hutchins - Sax
Geordie Greep - vocals





Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - January 26 2022 at 06:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 07:29
Hi,

It's strange ... I don't think that I have acquired many albums over the last 50+ years, based on one person only, and my choice, is not based on one talent, but on ALL the talents by all the folks involved.

In other words, it is the "group" working together that matters to me the most, not just one player. I shudder to think that Rick was better than the rest of the band, or that Keith was better than the rest of the band, or that Peter was better than the band, although some folks will probably state that Ian was better than the band since he continued to do his stuff with different musicians and still made it work!

IF, I have a choice, the group I would choose would be Amon Duul 2 .... but only a specific period ... from YETI, to DANCE OF THE LEMMINGS, to CARNIVAL IN BABYLON, to WOLF CITY, and then VIVE LA TRANCE. Those 5 albums show something that is rare for most bands, specially one that was so independent of its own "style" and simply did what they wanted, and some of that stuff is phenomenal. And at this time, the Live album LIVE IN LONDON shows a very good band on top of it!

Hard to say all this, as I could easily say the same thing about CAN, and then TANGERINE DREAM ... and if there was ONE PERSON, that would fit this thread, it would be EDGAR FROESE, specially as he commandeered so many versions of the band, and it seemed like it always got better, when you watch the videos of so many of their shows. Not to mention that the music itself is incredible.


Edited by moshkito - January 26 2022 at 07:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 07:38
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
The next candidate is from my favourite band, Jaki Liebezeit of Can. Outside Can Jaki has done a lot of stuff (very little if anything of which is on PA).
...
So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas.
...

Hi,

Rather odd combination, when hearing Kate's album 50 WORDS FOR SNOW, which has a couple of songs that do not have a "beat" and one drummer does great on them, something that I like to use as examples when people talk about "great sticklers" that can't do anything but keep time! BUT, Jaki would make it right, and you can hear it on FUTURE DAYS, and then SOON OVER BABALUMA, when the drumming adds to the music, by not keeping time or a beat ... but simply adding touches that furthers the moment of the keyboard ... something that the majority of drummers never learn ... afraid that they would lose the beat or worse, throw off the poor musicians in front of them, when they are not sharp enough and rehearsed enough to know how to pick things up when the lamp fell down and shattered on the stage. It's about the music, not the beat. You certainly don't hear a lot of "drumming" in music history for centuries, and now we are considering some of them "excellent" and those guys can't do music without a beat! 

I suppose that I would like to choose Jaki, but I prefer the duo of Peter Leopold and Danny F in AD2, who seemed to made things work just fine, and you can't even tell that there are two of them in there, though sometimes it is not listed as both of them, and one of them went to visit the group next door (Popol Vuh) and so on!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 08:53
@mosh: In fact I have no idea how Jaki would work with Kate, which is a reason why I'd love to try it out. There is something in Jaki's style that seems alien to Kate's approach, but then he has the "breathing" that Kate has as a singer and her songs have, but I don't locate in the drumming on most of her material. Who knows?

Peter Leopold is a hugely underrated great drummer, but I've got to say that Danny hasn't impressed me that much. They have worked well as a team though.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 09:39
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.


Well it is MY supergroup
True enough! I would actually be interested to hear who else would get into it.

Chris Cutler - Drums
Robert Fripp - Guitar
Michel Berckmans - Bassoon/Oboe
Carla Kihlstedt - Violin
William Kopecky - Bass
Dave Stewart - Keys
Lars Hollmer - Accordion
Shabaka Hutchins - Sax
Geordie Greep - vocals
Wow, quite an amazing roster...I find it hard to envisage how they would sound, but it would be one glorious cacophony.

Possibly enlivened by the occasional fist fight.


Edited by Mascodagama - January 26 2022 at 09:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2022 at 13:28
Well...I'm a Crimson fan so I would probably say Fripp.....other than him I would pick Steven Wilson...assuming he would commit to doing a prog thing for more than an album.  ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2022 at 07:56
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Well...I'm a Crimson fan so I would probably say Fripp.....other than him I would pick Steven Wilson...assuming he would commit to doing a prog thing for more than an album.  ;)

Hi,

I don't think that Kate would bother with SW ... my guess is that he is about the song and how it sounds to his ear, and for Kate, it is mostly about how she sees herself in the song, as if it were an actress doing their work. I don't see her even thinking about him. It reminds me of SW doing the live thing with Ninet ... and he doesn't have the guts to even try that a 2nd time, not the same but similar, allowing the lady the freedom she needs to express herself, which I think she came up with, not him! He doesn't have that side in him, that scary anger ... he's too English for that (right!!!! next ..... ).

I look at SW as someone that doesn't know music and how to interpret his words and meanings. I think that if he concentrated on music alone, it would be more consistent and better, but his words seem to put a stop to that. They prevent him from "tripping", so to speak, but maybe this is something he doesn't want to do anymore since he did it for so many years, and now the music has "less meaning" than it did then, in regards to tripping and dreaming! (how time flys ... ).

But I suppose that Kate would be nice to head a supergroup, and include some folks like Eberhard Weber, Steve Gadd and some other folks that have colored her music so well ... but I would imagine that it will just tire her too much and take away from the music itself ... she's about her poetry and making it come alive, not really about anything else, and I kinda think that the "song" part is just an addon, and many times not necessary at all.
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