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Why Is New Music Dying?

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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 23 2022 at 13:13
Check out the entire article (I'm just pasting some of it)
https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/is-old-music-killing-new-music


All the growth in the market is coming from old songs. 200 most popular tracks now account for less than 5% of total streams.

Consider these other trends:

    The hottest area of investment in the music business is old songs—with investment firms getting into bidding wars to buy publishing catalogs from aging rock and pop stars.

    The song catalogs in most demand are by musicians in their 70s or 80s (Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen, etc.)—if not already dead (David Bowie, James Brown, etc.).  

    Even major record labels are participating in the shift, with Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music, and others buying up publishing catalogs—investing huge sums in old tunes that, in an earlier day, would have been used to launch new artists.

    The hottest technology in music is a format that is more than 70 years old, the vinyl LP. There’s no sign that the record labels are investing in a newer, better alternative—because, here too, old is viewed as superior to new.

    In fact, record labels—once a source of innovation in consumer products—don’t spend any money on research & development to revitalize their businesses, although every other industry looks to innovation for growth and consumer excitement.

    Record stores are caught up in the same time warp. In an earlier day, they aggressively marketed new music, but now they make more money from vinyl reissues and used LPs.

    Radio stations are contributing to the stagnation, putting fewer new songs into their rotation, or—judging by the offerings on my satellite radio lineup—completely ignoring new music in favor of old hits.

    When a new song overcomes these obstacles and actually becomes a hit, the risk of copyright lawsuits is greater than ever before. The risks have increased enormously since the “Blurred Lines” jury decision of 2015—with the result that additional cash gets transferred from today’s musicians to old (or deceased) artists.

    Adding to the nightmare, dead musicians are now coming back to life in virtual form—via holograms and deepfake music—making it all the harder for a young, living artist to compete in the marketplace.



I'd like to add that it's worse than the numbers show

Many older people don't use streaming to listen to music. I talk to a LOT of people (just like here), and many still play their records, and others I know took their CDs and burned/digitized them into mp3's (some flac) so they can move them wherever and never have to purchase them again.

Simple answer: 60/70s > last 40 years, and it's no contest....

People can accidentally come across any kind of music on YouTube, and even the young people aren't going to deprive themselves of pleasure, despite the dumb pejoratives, like calling a 22-yr old a "dinosaur" (which happened today)
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 13:52
Maybe instead of looking at it as dying, perhaps look at it as diversifying into many different niches.

In the old days record companies decided what would be presented to the public and put a lot of money into their projects. In some ways this yielded some excellent music but only within certain parameters.

Sure there are no new Beatles or Pink Floyd but there are thousands and thousands of newer artists making a living on their own terms.

As a voracious music consumer, i have to say that there has NEVER been so much music to experience from everywhere around the world.

Perspective ;)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 14:01
What this suggests to me is that the music industry is no longer focusing on new music. This makes it an order of magnitude more difficult for new bands and artists to succeed on the terms of successful artists of earlier generations (60s to 90s) - celebrity, fabulous wealth, being able to make a living out of being in a band, etc.

It's not the case, based on my observations, that this means new music is dying. I think it is actually flourishing, but outside the ecosystem of major labels and publishers. My tastes are fairly esoteric but I could easily name dozens of new or newish artists who are releasing superb music within the niches I follow, and I'm discovering new ones all the time. These people are releasing their music via Bandcamp and/or niche labels covering specialised interests. They are never going to get rich and famous by doing it - I think the days when someone like Frank Zappa would end up with a Rolls Royce and a mansion are definitively over - but they're doing what they love. And if you're not going to make much money regardless, there's little incentive to compromise your vision due to commercial considerations - you may as well follow your muse wherever it may take you.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if more musicians - especially in the kind of marginal genres I follow - could live from their art. I suspect that where that is possible at all now it usually involves a frenetic lifestyle of juggling multiple projects, sessions, teaching. But the heartwarming thing is that this isn't stopping talented people making great new music. And the Internet is letting those people find an audience that transcends national barriers, even if it's rarely a large one.




Edited by Mascodagama - January 23 2022 at 14:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 14:09
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

What this suggests to me is that the music industry is no longer focusing on new music. This makes it an order of magnitude more difficult for new bands and artists to succeed on the terms of successful artists of earlier generations (60s to 90s) - celebrity, fabulous wealth, being able to make a living out of being in a band, etc.

It's not the case, based on my observations, that this means new music is dying. I think it is actually flourishing, but outside the ecosystem of major labels and publishers. My tastes are fairly esoteric but I could easily name dozens of new or newish artists who are releasing superb music within the niches I follow, and I'm discovering new ones all the time. These people are releasing their music via Bandcamp and/or niche labels covering specialised interests. They are never going to get rich and famous by doing it - I think the days when someone like Frank Zappa would end up with a Rolls Royce and a mansion are definitively over - but they're doing what they love. And if you're not going to make much money regardless, there's little incentive to compromise your vision due to commercial considerations - you may as well follow your muse wherever it may take you.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if more musicians - especially in the kind of marginal genres I follow - could live from their art. I suspect that where that is possible at all now it usually involves a frenetic lifestyle of juggling multiple projects, sessions, teaching. But the heartwarming thing is that this isn't stopping talented people making great new music. And the Internet is letting those people find an audience that transcends national barriers, even if it's rarely a large one.

Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 14:10
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Maybe instead of looking at it as dying, perhaps look at it as diversifying into many different niches.

In the old days record companies decided what would be presented to the public and put a lot of money into their projects. In some ways this yielded some excellent music but only within certain parameters.

Sure there are no new Beatles or Pink Floyd but there are thousands and thousands of newer artists making a living on their own terms.

As a voracious music consumer, i have to say that there has NEVER been so much music to experience from everywhere around the world.

Perspective ;)
  And thank you, too!  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 14:11
I listen to more new music now in my late fifties than I ever did in my teens or twenties.

The amount of great stuff out there is truly remarkable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argentinfonico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 15:10
What an interesting debate. Beyond the terms of economics and the motives that drive record label owners to handle everything this way, we could say that we are in the "involution" stage, which is part of the nature of evolution. I firmly believe that the main reason is the limitation of creativity within the artistic world, that is, of the artists. The ingenuity of the human being is gradually being dwarfed by the use of technology and nearby screens. We are exchanging roles between reality and virtuality. Every artist that today is created and molded to the shape of the record label owners was put there by the choice of others. Music has been developing strings for years thanks to commerce, and this would obviously end in catastrophes. There comes a point where the writers of the basic songs that are successful today are asked for something different, and they are not able to deliver it. And, to further minimize what today predominates in the ears of the whole world is impossible, due to its gigantic smallness.

Another thing that may seem stupid but is not: people are waking up little by little. I don't know if it is a growing percentage, but the people who can become enlightened and manage to escape from that cloud of fantasies and power, spread it as much as they can. This is partly thanks to record labels releasing reissues and showing people the level that music can reach in the hands of good artists. If you ever sit down to listen to Mozart and get excited about a piece, how could you be so ignorant and masochistic to go back to listening to crass music? At some point this was going to get boring: it's been the same thing for years!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 15:40
I'm an old guy and I listen to a lot of new jazz and RnB, also new music that mixes jazz, electronica and RnB all together, lots of modern ambient jazzy stuff etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 15:49
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Maybe instead of looking at it as dying, perhaps look at it as diversifying into many different niches.

In the old days record companies decided what would be presented to the public and put a lot of money into their projects. In some ways this yielded some excellent music but only within certain parameters.

Sure there are no new Beatles or Pink Floyd but there are thousands and thousands of newer artists making a living on their own terms.

As a voracious music consumer, i have to say that there has NEVER been so much music to experience from everywhere around the world.

Perspective ;)

True. 

I made a list on another site of great albums of 2021, I got to 109. That's a lot of good music(rock, metal and all sorts of prog). Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwill123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 15:54

Why Is New Music Dying?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 16:01
^ oh gawd. Old Joe obviously hasn't stepped out of his old school paradigm to see what lurks behind the magic curtain!

He's probably never even heard of prog hehe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 16:36
^ Yeah not exactly a pillar of musicologic philosophy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 16:40
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ oh gawd. Old Joe obviously hasn't stepped out of his old school paradigm to see what lurks behind the magic curtain!

He's probably never even heard of prog hehe
He's not wrong, particularly regarding the lack of money in digital sales. Most bands have to play live to make ends meet, but the amount of venues with live music has been shrinking for decades, which became more pronounced over the Plague Years.  And he's not talking about some obscure prog bands lurking on Bandcamp, but to music in general. Pop music requires 8 or 9 producers and about as many writing the songs by committee with formulaic preprogrammed sh*t dominating what's left of the commercial airwaves and pushed by the record industry. 

This same discussion is taking place over on the Hoffman site, and here's an interesting take by Rick Beato. And again, he's not at all wrong referring to music in general:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 16:42
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Check out the entire article (I'm just pasting some of it)
https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/is-old-music-killing-new-music

All the growth in the market is coming from old songs. 200 most popular tracks now account for less than 5% of total streams.
Consider these other trends:
The hottest area of investment in the music business is old songs—with investment firms getting into bidding wars to buy publishing catalogs from aging rock and pop stars.

The song catalogs in most demand are by musicians in their 70s or 80s (Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen, etc.)—if not already dead (David Bowie, James Brown, etc.).  

Even major record labels are participating in the shift, with Universal Music, Sony Music, Warner Music, and others buying up publishing catalogs—investing huge sums in old tunes that, in an earlier day, would have been used to launch new artists.

The hottest technology in music is a format that is more than 70 years old, the vinyl LP. There’s no sign that the record labels are investing in a newer, better alternative—because, here too, old is viewed as superior to new.

Unexpected but, I think, welcome news.   If it weren't for what had come before them, the Beatles would have been no more than a tinny rock/vocal band.  

"What's past is prologue."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 16:51
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ oh gawd. Old Joe obviously hasn't stepped out of his old school paradigm to see what lurks behind the magic curtain!

He's probably never even heard of prog hehe
He's not wrong, particularly regarding the lack of money in digital sales. Most bands have to play live to make ends meet, but the amount of venues with live music has been shrinking for decades, which became more pronounced over the Plague Years.  And he's not talking about some obscure prog bands lurking on Bandcamp, but to music in general. Pop music requires 8 or 9 producers and about as many writing the songs by committee with formulaic preprogrammed sh*t dominating what's left of the commercial airwaves and pushed by the record industry. 

This same discussion is taking place over on the Hoffman site, and here's an interesting take by Rick Beato. And again, he's not at all wrong referring to music in general:




Nah, he's wrong. He was in The Eagles and enjoyed great success. MOST bands from the 70s, 80s and 90s experienced ZERO success. The old game was ALL or NOTHING.

The new paradigm means that any given artist can make a decent living selling LESS music.

There are plenty of modern bands doing quite well. He's saying all modern music is mindless crap with programmed drums. He's totally out of touch.

All you have to do is check out the top albums of 2021 on RYM and see there are THOUSANDS of ratings for many albums that sold crap loads. Maybe not millions but an independent artist makes ALL the $$$.

https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/2021/incl:live,archival/

Music has never been a profitable career choice for the majority of bands.

Classic bands and albums will ALWAYS sell albums to new generations. Let's face it, The Beatles and Pink Floyd are timeless.

Likewise many bands that had ZERO success in the 70s now are making money off their decades old albums via word of mouth on the internet alone. The record companies did NOTHING for them. The word of mouth fanbase has done EVERYTHING for them.

Old Joe is romanticizing the way things used to be from the lofty position of someone who made millions by being in a band that was pretty much force fed to the public with constant radio play.

Personally i love the modern era where the sky is the limit. I can check out music from all of history simply by typing on my keyboard.

And some of the new music is beyond brilliant.

True one has to wade through seas of crap at times but the gems are well worth the treasure hunt.

Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 17:50
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Yeah not exactly a pillar of musicologic philosophy.

Happily I’ve read enough of his commentary elsewhere to know what he is without wasting further time watching the video - i.e. a massively entitled ignoramous who lives with his head up his arse. A shame, as he can certainly afford a nice view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 18:30
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Yeah not exactly a pillar of musicologic philosophy.

Happily I’ve read enough of his commentary elsewhere to know what he is without wasting further time watching the video - i.e. a massively entitled ignoramous who lives with his head up his arse. A shame, as he can certainly afford a nice view.


I remember Gene Simmons similarly bitching about the new world of music.

Translation. They are dinosaurs who don't know how to adapt to the modern world.

And personally i don't give a flying f----

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 19:12
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Nah, he's wrong. He was in The Eagles and enjoyed great success. MOST bands from the 70s, 80s and 90s experienced ZERO success. The old game was ALL or NOTHING.

The new paradigm means that any given artist can make a decent living selling LESS music.

There are plenty of modern bands doing quite well. He's saying all modern music is mindless crap with programmed drums. He's totally out of touch.

All you have to do is check out the top albums of 2021 on RYM and see there are THOUSANDS of ratings for many albums that sold crap loads. Maybe not millions but an independent artist makes ALL the $$$.


Quoting a dubious RYM "custom chart" where most of the acts have ratings in the hundreds (or less) does not in any way indicate success, or monetary stability for that matter (but it's nice to know Neil Young is as popular as ever, with 3 releases in the "top ten" LOL). 

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Music has never been a profitable career choice for the majority of bands.

Classic bands and albums will ALWAYS sell albums to new generations. Let's face it, The Beatles and Pink Floyd are timeless.

Likewise many bands that had ZERO success in the 70s now are making money off their decades old albums via word of mouth on the internet alone. The record companies did NOTHING for them. The word of mouth fanbase has done EVERYTHING for them.

The fact they have a discography means the record companies did release their albums. Worthwhile artists of previous generations have always been rediscovered by a new generation. There were many old bluesmen working factory jobs (like John Lee Hooker) or sharecropping not far from the plantations where their grandparents were slaves (like Mississippi John Hurt) that were brought out of obscurity by rock musicians of the 60s and 70s, allowing for some financial stability in their waning years.

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Old Joe is romanticizing the way things used to be from the lofty position of someone who made millions by being in a band that was pretty much force fed to the public with constant radio play.

Personally i love the modern era where the sky is the limit. I can check out music from all of history simply by typing on my keyboard.

Who's romanticizing, you or Joe? Joe worked his a** off to get where he's at. It's laughable you think he just plopped into a "lofty position". He's played in several bands since he was a teenager in the mid-60s. He was ten years into his career before he even joined the Eagles (I assume with your limited knowledge of the musician that's who you refer to as "someone who made millions by being in a band that was pretty much force fed to the public with constant radio play"). Are you the type of prog snob who thinks that success demeans the artist? Oh, Hotel California sold 32 million copies worldwide because everyone was force fed the album! You're probably pissed that Pink Floyd released Dark Side of the Moon, because they were no longer experimental. LOL

And yes, I think you're romanticizing more so than Joe. Are you a musician? I ask because I know and have played with musicians all over the States, and I'm friends with other musicians worldwide.  I ask because, humorously enough, a friend (who was once active on PA) sent me a FB message about the digital sales of his latest album (he'll remain anonymous, and if he wants to comment, he can). It went as follows:

ORDER TOTAL: $8.00
REVENUE SHARE: -1.20
APPLIED TO YOUR REVENUE SHARED BALANCE: -6.35
PAYMENT PROCESSOR FEE: -0.45
YOUR SHARE:  0.00 USD

I only play out occasionally these days, and I don't record any longer, but I'll wager there's a lot of this bullsh*t going on. In fact, I know so:


There are hundreds more articles on the subject. It's nice that you can get music with a keystroke, but it doesn't mean the musicians are getting any of the money. From what I've read, it's actually easier for Spotify and Apple to f*ck musicians than it ever was selling hard copy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2022 at 19:38
^ you clearly don't understand how the music industry operates. For the most part record companies steal the product and give the artists a pittance.

RYM is a peer rated site and shows where the public's tastes are. Some of the top indie artists are doing quite well. You're really saying that because your friend hasn't made $$$ that nobody else has? LOL

I'm not saying Joe isn't a legend. I have several of his albums. I love his music. I'm saying that he's out of touch with the reality of the modern music business model and clearly doesn't expand his musical horizons from his clueless comments.


Edited by siLLy puPPy - January 23 2022 at 19:39

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