What not prog band would've made the best prog?

Edited by ExittheLemming - December 18 2021 at 09:49

nick_h_nz wrote: Philchem8 wrote: Split Enz. Maybe they don't qualify as they started out as a prog outfit, but since they became famous for their new wave stuff, I think they're worth considering. One could see traces of their prog roots in some of their pop work, particularly in their instrumentals and songs like Dirty Creature, Poor Boy, Semi-Detached, Giant Heartbeat and Log Cabin Fever. I’ve always equated the Enz with Genesis and Queen. All three are no more or less prog to me than the others. All three were more overtly prog in their early years/albums (generally in the ‘70s) even during their more mainstream and accessible “pop” years (generally in the ‘80s), there was still plenty of prog still there. It was merely less obvious, and all three have had their later work compared unfavourably with their earlier work because of it. Conversely, all of them had far greater commercial success with their less overtly prog sound - although Queen and the Enz did fare better on the charts with their earlier material than Genesis.

Interesting comparison. I would add that the prog music of these 3 bands shared a strong theatrical element. But I think the comparison only goes so far and may be influenced by your perspective from down-under. Firstly, I think you would agree that Split Enz's prog period was rather short (1975-1977) and at the most consisted of 3 albums, as compared to 1970-77 for Genesis and 7 albums. More importantly, outside New Zealand and Australia, Enz was relatively unknown during their prog years and the rest of the world only became aware of them when they moved into new wave. Even in Canada, where the Enz were quite successful in the early 80s, their prog albums unfortunately remained little known (though I think they were great). Queen was obviously much more successful worldwide from 74-75, while Genesis started to become a major act in the UK, parts of Europe and later Canada in the early to mid-70s. Starting with 1972's Foxtrot, all their albums reached at least the top 12 in the UK charts and became Gold or more in Italy, France, the US and Canada (among others). Though admittedly, in the US they were more of a cult act than in these other countries. No doubt, Genesis had more commercial success when they moved to the mainstream but I think they are still recognized throughout the world as much (if not more) for their prog rock music than for their mainstream hits. That's why I see Split Enz more as a pop-rock band, while I see Genesis mainly as a prog band that moved into pop-rock, and Queen somewhere in the middle.
Still, I take your points and also find interesting all the other bands you have identified in your posts.

Grandaddy

ExittheLemming wrote: Nick Drake

That is one I find difficult to envisage - prog, and indeed rock in general, seem pretty alien to Drake's aesthetic to me. Hard to know, of course, what he might have become if he'd received more effective treatment for his depression and drug dependency and been able to survive his twenties. But if one could trace any development in his work, I think the music became simpler and sparser over time.

Mascodagama wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Nick Drake That is one I find difficult to envisage - prog, and indeed rock in general, seem pretty alien to Drake's aesthetic to me. Hard to know, of course, what he might have become if he'd received more effective treatment for his depression and drug dependency and been able to survive his twenties. But if one could trace any development in his work, I think the music became simpler and sparser over time.

Hugh Manatee wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Most reviewers at the time found Drake difficult to pigeonhole as many opined he was 'too jazzy to be folk' and 'too folky to be jazz'.  This reminds me of John Martyn, a contemporary and good freind if Nick Drake, to whom he dedicated "Solid Air". I don't know if Martyn has been mentioned yet but he definitely belongs in the folk/ jazz prog category.

ExittheLemming wrote: Mascodagama wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: Nick Drake That is one I find difficult to envisage - prog, and indeed rock in general, seem pretty alien to Drake's aesthetic to me. Hard to know, of course, what he might have become if he'd received more effective treatment for his depression and drug dependency and been able to survive his twenties. But if one could trace any development in his work, I think the music became simpler and sparser over time. I can see what you mean with regards the increasingly minimalist format but his harmonic language, guitar playing and exploitation of unusual alternative tunings were all still developing right up to the end and leave most traditional folk reference points way behind in terms of their sophistication. His final 3rd album was the only one where it's just his vocal and the guitar but the music doesn't strike me as being any simpler than before. Most reviewers at the time found Drake difficult to pigeonhole as many opined he was 'too jazzy to be folk' and 'too folky to be jazz'. The arrangements for string section and accompaniment by various members of Fairport Convention and John Cale indicate his songs had sufficient substance and depth to survive and be enhanced in a group/communal setting. Again, as you state, it's really a case of what if?

Edited by Mascodagama - December 19 2021 at 14:55

ExittheLemming wrote: Judie Tzuke

Alice Cooper.  

The Dark Elf wrote: Actually, they had several compositions that ran one into another with an emphasis on what Frank Zappa would refer to as "conceptual continuity". Like this from Love It To Death....