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Your favourite South and Far East Asia albums?
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David_D View Drop Down
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Can you explain further what you mean, Nogbad?
And tell me what you think it's best for me to do?


Edited by David_D - December 12 2021 at 13:49
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

And tell me what you think it's best for me to do?

If I were you, I would stop judging others and pretending you're PA's thought police...

You may not have been happy with Nick's comments, but I actually am. That is what forums are about: opening up other perspectives on the themes of discussion at hand. Your judgmental attitude here has been disturbing me at several moments, but it is getting really annoying here. Nick's comment is very on topic and pertinent in questioning some of your prejudices that apparently you are not ready to affront... Instead of reflecting on his comment you're aggressing him and even menacing him from a point of view that is yours, but not necessarily PA's...  Personally, and when you ask what is best for you to do, I would say: tone down! Be a bit more modest in determining how others should behave on these forums...

Edited by suitkees - December 12 2021 at 14:14

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Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

If I were you, I would stop judging others and pretending you're PA's thought police...

I don't really understand what you mean, suitkees. I do have opinions, yes, but I'm not just telling other people what to do. No, all I want is to discuss different things to have some opinions about what's best to do for Prog's prosperity - and I don't expect that we must agree on everything, rather more on the contrary.
But I react if somethings really bothers me, and you don't know much about me so, you don't know how I experience things.
I think, it's best try to understand each other - at least for the beginning.
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

If I were you, I would stop judging others and pretending you're PA's thought police...

I don't really understand what you mean, suitkees. I do have opinions, yes, but I'm not just telling other people what to do. No, all I want is to discuss different things to have some opinions about what's best to do for Prog's prosperity - and I don't expect that we must agree on everything, rather more on the contrary.
But I react if somethings really bothers me, and you don't know much about me so, you don't know how I experience things.
I think, it's best try to understand each other - at least for the beginning.

You think shouting GET OFF MY NECK is a good way of doing that?
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suitkees View Drop Down
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What I mean is that it is not very elegant (to say the least) to menace an other forum member that his "behaviour" could cause problems on PA.
Especially when this "behaviour" is just typical forum behaviour: making a point and formulating the arguments sustaining and explaining this point. This is what Nick did, politely and patiently (because it takes time to elaborate on arguments...). You may or may not agree with the points made, you could formulate counter arguments, explain your reasons and logic in order to discuss all this. That is what discussion forums are about.

It is indeed best to try and understand each other, and have some openness to other people's arguments. It may incite more people to participate...

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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

You think shouting GET OFF MY NECK is a good way of doing that?

No, but that is how I feel (even I didn't think of it as "shouting") because of all the things that by now have happend between me and Nick. And I've tried to come to an understanding with him but he hasn't been obliging - at least as I see it.
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Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Especially when this "behaviour" is just typical forum behaviour: making a point and formulating the arguments sustaining and explaining this point. This is what Nick did, politely and patiently (because it takes time to elaborate on arguments...). 
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Wow just wow

thank you very much, Nogbad

I could be wrong, but I don’t think you should be thankful. I’m pretty sure this comment of awe is in regard to how awful this thread is, rather than how awesome. 

I won't call this comment of Nick "politely and patiently", on the contrary, it's a complete distortion of Nogbad's intention - at least as I understood it.
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So he he hasn't given in to your perspective so you resort to shouting and threatening (capital letters is considered shouting in text form). And mentioned above, what you are seeing from nick is normal forum discourse. Take the advice and stop judging others, if you don't like regular forum discourse then don't start threads that can trigger it. We're behaving in line with forum norms and rules, you're the one who is out of line.

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - December 13 2021 at 05:38
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My wow was in reference to the arguments about what constitutes various parts of eastern Asia in a little poll on a prog site.

Seeing this

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

East Asia to me immediately connotes Chakutia, Kamchatka, Magadan Oblast, Sakhalin, Khabarovsk Krai, Primorsky Krai, Japan, Korea, Manchuria, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao, and coastal China, not Southeast Asia and certainly not India! 

made me want to rush off and see if we had any prog bands on the site from those Russian federal areas.


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - December 13 2021 at 05:46
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

My wow was in reference to the arguments about what constitutes various parts of eastern Asia in a little poll on a prog site.

Seeing this

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

East Asia to me immediately connotes Chakutia, Kamchatka, Magadan Oblast, Sakhalin, Khabarovsk Krai, Primorsky Krai, Japan, Korea, Manchuria, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao, and coastal China, not Southeast Asia and certainly not India! 

made me want to rush off and see if we had any prog bands on the site from those Russian federal areas.

I can’t speak for the others, but here’s something from Kamchatka:
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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Great, and let me start with:
Ali Akbar Khan
Ravi Shankar
Talvin Singh
L Shankar
L Subramaniam
Ashwin Batish

I haven't gone through the entire thread so I don't know if she has been mentioned, but surely Anoushka Shankar also deserves to be included.
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

...
For example, the music just within the Indian subcontinent is incredibly diverse, and certainly unlike the music of Japan, which is likely to be the next most known country for music in these fora. (In fact, Japan has had more than one thread dedicated just to it before, and is one of many countries within this region that could easily have their own post, rather than be grouped together with countries that share nothing other than your grouping them together.
...
Hi,

Indian is difficult to discuss musically. It's really hard for folks to get a feel for Hindu/Indian music and even realize that possibly the Westernized music we know actually came from India more than likely, and the various raga definitions (too many of them) even have what we would call note combinations that were pretty much copied into our own language. (Peter Michael Hamel's book!)

There is a Japanese thread. Damo's, which is the best of all the threads on this board, and the only one that really lives up to the name PROGRESSIVE, unlike so many of the fan-boy threads in this board. I have wished that a round of various of these nationalities had their own thread, so a few more discussions could take place, instead of the new Banco, or the new PFM getting plastered in the wrong place! I think it also helps that he is an ADMIN, and I don't think a lot of folks want to say something wrong. The other threads, the folks are not "as important" and thus, the attacks, in my view, can be thought of as not right, or specially well meaning.

There is one for Italian music, but I don't see it as active as Damo's, at least in terms of continuity. But I do not see a French one, or a German one, or a few other different/select threads. it's just sad, and I wanted to talk about one album by AGUSA but the only place to talk about it, most folks would have trashed it, and thought it was too much of a copy, and not even bother listening to the whole thing. At least in a thread of their own country, many of those negative comments would likely not be there as those folks would not be interested in it.

I am of the opinion that part of the problem is that the "definition" is so generic and bad, as to allow people to think that a different country or a different language, or a different culture could do something that is considered "progressive" specially in relation to its own culture, by modernizing it.

By the way, the listing, shamefully, is missing Ryuichi Sakamoto, but it has one of his band mates from YMO ... what's up with that? I'm sure that Ryuichi is laughing right now and saying ... tell that bunch of goons how much they know music ... I have an Oscar in my closet and they only have empty words! At least I will be remembered as an artist ... and no one will remember any of these posts in a board that has a rather laissez-faire attitude towards the music itself. 

And sadly, when someone does something about it, as the OP did, and probably meant well, he ends up getting jumped on ... it's not fair, in my book, even though at times the criticism is meant well and right, but in the end, it all comes off as ... my music is better, and your listing and attempt stinks ... and THAT'S BAD FOR ALL MUSIC, specially the one we love dearly!


Edited by moshkito - December 13 2021 at 06:41
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

S And mentioned above, what you are seeing from nick is normal forum discourse.
 
Then, all I can say is, I'm surely suprised, and it's just not in line with the ethics, I find to be good.


Edited by David_D - December 13 2021 at 09:17
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

if you don't like regular forum discourse then don't start threads that can trigger it.

Okay, I don't know yet what I will do.
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These threads are very helpful to me, as I am not at all entrenched with the music mentioned here. It is a totally different culture and at the same time fundamental to know, because as you have already said, a lot of western music took great elements (especially rhythmic) from there.

I don't think it is necessary to attack anyone for not knowing about geography, because this is very far from an intention to offend. It is very pedantic to want to punish someone for simple ignorance. I mean, meanness is far from this! No one should be judged, least of all by intellect. The reason the thread was created branches out with people like me constantly looking to broaden their musical horizons.

Now, to respond with so much disrespect and with airs of bossiness totally contradicts the moral, ethical and integrity line of this wonderful forum completely derails the parameters of the debate and turns it into anything else. Insults and derogatory phrases are out of this essence!

Helping from our knowledge is always enriching.

Edited by Argentinfonico - December 13 2021 at 16:15
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Originally posted by Argentinfonico Argentinfonico wrote:



Now, to respond with so much disrespect and with airs of bossiness totally contradicts the moral, ethical and integrity line of this wonderful forum completely derails the parameters of the debate and turns it into anything else. Insults and derogatory phrases are out of this essence!

Helping from our knowledge is always enriching.

Wow, your post brought a lump to my throat and almost a tear to my eye.

Here, here I say, and more power to all those looking to gather information and maybe learn something new, particularly in a non judgmental environment.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

.........
And sadly, when someone does something about it, as the OP did, and probably meant well, he ends up getting jumped on ... it's not fair, in my book, even though at times the criticism is meant well and right, but in the end, it all comes off as ... my music is better, and your listing and attempt stinks ... and THAT'S BAD FOR ALL MUSIC, specially the one we love dearly!

Thank you very much for your comment, moshkito .
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Originally posted by Argentinfonico Argentinfonico wrote:

These threads are very helpful to me, as I am not at all entrenched with the music mentioned here. It is a totally different culture and at the same time fundamental to know, because as you have already said, a lot of western music took great elements (especially rhythmic) from there.

I don't think it is necessary to attack anyone for not knowing about geography, because this is very far from an intention to offend. It is very pedantic to want to punish someone for simple ignorance. I mean, meanness is far from this! No one should be judged, least of all by intellect. The reason the thread was created branches out with people like me constantly looking to broaden their musical horizons.

Now, to respond with so much disrespect and with airs of bossiness totally contradicts the moral, ethical and integrity line of this wonderful forum completely derails the parameters of the debate and turns it into anything else. Insults and derogatory phrases are out of this essence!

Helping from our knowledge is always enriching.

Thank you so much for your comment, as well, Argentinfonico.
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Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

Originally posted by Argentinfonico Argentinfonico wrote:


Now, to respond with so much disrespect and with airs of bossiness totally contradicts the moral, ethical and integrity line of this wonderful forum completely derails the parameters of the debate and turns it into anything else. Insults and derogatory phrases are out of this essence!

Helping from our knowledge is always enriching.

Wow, your post brought a lump to my throat and almost a tear to my eye.

Here, here I say, and more power to all those looking to gather information and maybe learn something new, particularly in a non judgmental environment.

Many thanks giving here by now, but I surely can't omit you, Hugh Manatee, so, thank you very much to you, as well.


Edited by David_D - December 14 2021 at 09:19
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

if you don't like regular forum discourse then don't start threads that can trigger it.

Okay, I don't know yet what I will do.

Thank you so much to all you guys, who at least supported this thread and me for good intentions.

I wasn't sure if I had the wish to continue my contribution to PA and for Prog's prosperity, but now I'm surely not in doubt. 

I'm very very grateful to all of you!, and I think that many others have good reason to be that, as well.


Edited by David_D - December 14 2021 at 05:22
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