How to define and classify "Progressive Rock"? |
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David_D
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If that would be the case, Prog wouldn't exist, it would disappear in all other music.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43450 |
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He's kidding.
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 39856 |
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^ In the broadest possible sense, everything IS prog on my prog channel, including David Bowie, Deacon Blue, Elton John, Fleetwood Mac, Prefab Sprout, and today, Karl Jenkins.
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Well, I don’t know who Karl Jenkins is, but all the others have certainly had prog moments. Most prog shows/channels/podcasts/whatever recognise that many non-prog artists have released prog songs and/or albums in their career, and will play them. And I’m glad they are, as I have been put onto some interesting things I might otherwise never would have heard (of). Bad Religion, for example, are a band very few would ever associate with prog. At all. But I heard a song from their second album on a prog show, and it was a real surprise. |
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David_D
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That kind can make me being worried on behalf of "Progressive Rock".
Edited by David_D - November 21 2021 at 03:09 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Psychedelic Paul
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I've included Karl Jenkins on my Prog Britannia channel on the grounds that he's a former member of Soft Machine, and additionally, his Adiemus choral albums could be described as Symphonic Rock, so that makes him prog-related - at least in my eyes anyway.
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - November 21 2021 at 03:30 |
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David_D
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It was not so much Karl Jenkins, I was thinking about, Paul.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15078 |
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Nick, I think it's best to distinguish between "Progressive Rock" and "Progressive Music", the latter one being broader and including progressive parts of other "main genres" than those I mention in the proposed definition - such as Blues, Country or whatever there might be of roots/Traditional music around the world, or whatever one might want include. It's so vast, or at least potentially so, I even can't think about it. - But one could of course start to define it somehow, and then see how it could be broaden.
And Lewian, by the way, it doesn't seem meaningful to me to include Blues as one of "the main genres" in the proposed definition, as mainstream Rock and Rock as a hole traditionally is very Blues based so, a fusion of Rock and Blues doesn't sound progressive.
Edited by David_D - November 21 2021 at 05:01 |
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moshkito
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Hi, AND, it should, because as it is right now, in almost all "definitions", there is NOTHING in it, that has not been done before, other than it being electrified and LOUDER to make sure we notice it! And that is my issue with a lot of these definitions, that lack musical content and information other than a description that most do not get or understand (odd times/crazy chords/etc) ... because that is not, generally what we listen to or for. The issue is that those definitions are not exactly what the music is about, otherwise, a lot of the solo stuff would make no sense whatsoever, and in some cases, it doesn't anyway. So, for me, making sure that a new book adds to the whole thing, and makes it more valuable and important as a musical art form, is far more important than concentrating on the same "formula" that is being used that belongs to the "top 5" and no one else! And there was music then, that was just as progressive that got ignored, and is appreciated today .... but many listeners won't go past the "top" in order to make sure they and their friends are on the same page! Like PA!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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David_D
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regretted Edited by David_D - November 22 2021 at 11:36 |
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TCat
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Have you heard of his project Adiemus? The lyrics are not in any specific language, more of a made up language of sorts (Zeuhl? Probably not. More like musical syllables that flow quite well). Here's a sample Adiemus - "Amate Adea" Edited by TCat - November 22 2021 at 10:23 |
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Psychedelic Paul
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The title track from Prefab Sprout's one and only prog album, which sounds so unlike anything Prefab Sprout have done before or since that it was originally planned as a Paddy McAloon solo album.
Prefab Sprout - I Trawl the Megahertz |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15078 |
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One thing more, which can be interesting to discuss here, is whether Progressive Rock is best to be considered and called as "a genre", "a meta-genre", "an umbrella" or something quite else.
In my opinion, it can't be said to be a genre as it's defined here, as it consists of too many different styles. "An umbrella" says to me that what is under this umbrella doesn't have to posses much in common so, I'd say it's not so good a word to use either. So, I think it's best to call Prog "meta-genre", as it consists of styles/"sub-genres" which have something in common, which is fusion of different kinds of music plus some structural similarities.
Edited by David_D - February 12 2022 at 04:05 |
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Lewian
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One issue with prog as a "genre" is that the term "progressive" implies (at least to me) that genre boundaries are not slavishly to be respected. To say something like "whatever is called prog has to respect the following boundaries" looks like a contradiction in terms, unless one insists of a use of the term "prog" that is entirely stripped of its original association with "progressive" (which some do actually, but to me *that* is far more detrimental to prog than being generous with the term).
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moshkito
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Hi, And that has been a great concern of mine ... that "progressive" is being put into a boundary, when it started out as (just about) total anarchy, and its development included whatever was necessary to make the music work. Today, the audience and fans, are so media controlled to the point that thinking of something that is without boundaries a complete impossible and stupid idea ... not even seeing how much of it came out of improvisations and out of "nothing". As I say a lot ... the idea of divisions and classifications is not a progressive idea at all ... in fact, it is more regressive than anything. And the main reason why I suggest it be applied to a sort of linear vision of the history of music in the 20th century and then it will make better sense, instead of the blue guitar, the loud solos, the chord changes that no composer has ever used in 500 years, etc, etc, etc ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15078 |
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Logically speaking, yes, but if the boundaries (like for instance, "Rock", "Jazz" and "experimental", and even more the combination of them) are floating themselves, and somehow subjective, I don't see any contradiction. Further, if not to use the word "genre", "sub-genre" doesn't give any meaning.
Edited by David_D - November 24 2021 at 01:42 |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15078 |
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I can say here that my starting point is that both Prog musicians and not least music aficionados/fans have very good use of quite exactly description and classification of the characteristics of the music. Taking it as the starting point, then, there's of course the question how to do it in the best way.
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David_D
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So, I'd say we have think here more dynamic and dialectic than usual logic tells us.
Edited by David_D - November 27 2021 at 11:57 |
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dr wu23
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We are defining prog rock...again..? on this forum...? seriously..?
Edited by dr wu23 - December 02 2021 at 14:39 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15078 |
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I won't say, I'm quite sure what you mean, as I find you some difficult to understand, but as far as I can see, you put much weight on artist's doing and their universe to be able to understand their pieces of art. But I'd say yes, right, but it's only one way to view it. Another way is to say, pieces of art speaks for them selves, and they can be understood just in relation to other pieces of art. - And that's the way I relate to music.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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