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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: October 13 2021 at 20:07 |
There's a big difference between protesting a government and trying to overthrow one. If someone can't see the difference between the two, it can only be down to that person justifying the act of the latter, as no one can possibly be so stupid.
Edited by SteveG - October 13 2021 at 20:08
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ProfPanglos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2017
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 624
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Posted: October 13 2021 at 20:29 |
SteveG wrote:
There's a big difference between protesting a government and trying to overthrow one. If someone can't see the difference between the two, it can only be down to that person justifying the act of the latter, as no one can possibly be so stupid. |
I agree 100% with your first sentence.
Again, did any of these people have automatic rifles, rocket launchers, or bombs? If their intent was to "overthrow the government," how exactly were they going to do that? Use their MAGA caps to bludgeon anyone who stood in their way? I guess the guy with the viking helmet could've started impaling people with those horns...
I'm not justifying what they did. What they did was stupid. But if that was an "overthrow the government" attempt, they really need to 'up their game,' LOL. Which is why I stand by my position that it wasn't their intent to begin with.
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DIGNITAS - FIRMITAS - GRAVITAS - COMITAS - LIBERTAS
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13054
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Posted: October 13 2021 at 21:09 |
ProfPanglos wrote:
SteveG wrote:
There's a big difference between protesting a government and trying to overthrow one. If someone can't see the difference between the two, it can only be down to that person justifying the act of the latter, as no one can possibly be so stupid. |
I agree 100% with your first sentence.
Again, did any of these people have automatic rifles, rocket launchers, or bombs? If their intent was to "overthrow the government," how exactly were they going to do that? Use their MAGA caps to bludgeon anyone who stood in their way? I guess the guy with the viking helmet could've started impaling people with those horns...
I'm not justifying what they did. What they did was stupid. But if that was an "overthrow the government" attempt, they really need to 'up their game,' LOL. Which is why I stand by my position that it wasn't their intent to begin with. |
The intent was to stop the joint session of Congress from counting the electoral votes and certifying the presidential election, which these camo-wearing clowns did for several hours. That, in and of itself, is reprehensible, seditious and indefensible.
That these insurrectionists were stupid was evident. It was, after all, an attempted "stupid coup" fomented by a fraudulent charlatan spouting nonsense about a stolen election even after every court in the land threw out the idiotic attempts of Trump's assorted nut attorneys to prove otherwise. But these were particular asshats attacking and beating the police, waving their Confederate flags and sporting neo-Nazi regalia, and wandering the halls of the Capitol looking for congressmen to kidnap or kill. They were representative of Trump's base. They were Trump's voter demographic. To a tee.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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ProfPanglos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2017
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 624
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Posted: October 13 2021 at 21:47 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
The intent was to stop the joint session of Congress from counting the electoral votes and certifying the presidential election, which these camo-wearing clowns did for several hours. That, in and of itself, is reprehensible, seditious and indefensible.
That these insurrectionists were stupid was evident. It was, after all, an attempted "stupid coup" fomented by a fraudulent charlatan spouting nonsense about a stolen election even after every court in the land threw out the idiotic attempts of Trump's assorted nut attorneys to prove otherwise. But these were particular asshats attacking and beating the police, waving their Confederate flags and sporting neo-Nazi regalia, and wandering the halls of the Capitol looking for congressmen to kidnap or kill. They were representative of Trump's base. They were Trump's voter demographic. To a tee. |
You know what, you're right about that - I totally forgot about the in-progress vote-count aspect. So yes, I can agree that what they did was "reprehensible, seditious and indefensible." Thank you for reminding me of that.
I'll reverse my position on this, and agree that this was an "insurrection."
And, I just read the Wikipedia page on the "2021 United States Capitol Attack" and it was apparently far uglier than I remembered when following the events during the time.
I will say that I don't agree with your last comment about these people being representative of Trump's base. I think they represent a fringe element, sure. I know plenty of Trump supporters, and none of them are Confederate flag-waving neo-Nazi types.
Thank you for changing my mind about this topic, though. Much appreciated.
Edited by ProfPanglos - October 13 2021 at 21:55
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DIGNITAS - FIRMITAS - GRAVITAS - COMITAS - LIBERTAS
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65248
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Posted: October 13 2021 at 22:39 |
Trump just released a statement saying Republicans won't vote in 2022 or '24 if we don't "fix Presidential Election fraud".
Hm.
Edited by Atavachron - October 13 2021 at 22:40
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: October 14 2021 at 04:09 |
Atavachron wrote:
Trump just released a statement saying Republicans won't vote in 2022 or '24 if we don't "fix Presidential Election fraud".
Hm.
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Thank God. There's hope.
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 50966
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Posted: October 14 2021 at 16:03 |
Atavachron wrote:
Trump just released a statement saying Republicans won't vote in 2022 or '24 if we don't "fix Presidential Election fraud".
Hm.
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Gee, who could imagine Trump saving us from low information voters?
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---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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JD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 05:46 |
Occasionally I'll come across an article that helps demonstrate some fundamental differences between the US and Canada. How do you think this would have played out more often than not south of the border? (NOTE: Pay attention to the numbers)
Edited by JD - October 15 2021 at 05:47
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 06:25 |
JD wrote:
Occasionally I'll come across an article that helps demonstrate some fundamental differences between the US and Canada. How do you think this would have played out more often than not south of the border? (NOTE: Pay attention to the numbers)
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It depends on where exactly south of the border you're referring to. She would fit in well in Austin, Texas. Muskogee, Oklahoma? Not as much.
Edited by SteveG - October 15 2021 at 06:25
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 07:17 |
JD wrote:
Occasionally I'll come across an article that helps demonstrate some fundamental differences between the US and Canada. How do you think this would have played out more often than not south of the border? (NOTE: Pay attention to the numbers)
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We're pretty churchy conservative around here, but popular metal bands and hard rock bands such as Metallica or AC/DC are pretty well accepted, no one seems too concerned about satanic implications. I think the big difference today is that a lot of parents today grew up listening to metal, which is far different from their parents who felt more threatened by it. If an educator around here posted such a thing, I think they would be advised to remove it, but I would be surprised if more than a few people felt offended enough to make a stink about it.
Edited by Easy Money - October 15 2021 at 07:21
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 07:21 |
can anyone top this stupidity of Lauren Boebert? in reaction to a man killing 5 people with bow and arrow she tweeted this:
"A man in Norway just killed a bunch of people with a bow and arrow.
Norway has some of the strictest gun laws around, yet mass killings still occur.
Liberals need to understand it is not the gun - it is the criminal who commits the act!"
the last mass killing in Norway happened in 2011 when a man shot 77 people with a gun
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Shadowyzard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 24 2020
Location: Davutlar
Status: Offline
Points: 4506
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 07:27 |
^ Lol. Sheer stupidity. We, in Turkey, have such troglodytes too. They can equal, if not top, this person.
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." Albert Einstein
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 07:29 |
Re Boebert: The implication that only 'liberals' favor gun legislation is purposefully manipulative. The idea that all people can be divided up into two neat little camps of thought is lazy thinking and childish. Most local police departments favor gun legislation and these people are hardly what I would call 'liberals'. On the other hand, there are plenty of left wing types that see unfettered gun ownership as essential to prevent an oppressive government. Anyway, regarding her ignorance of recent events, or past events, no big surprise there.
Edited by Easy Money - October 15 2021 at 07:39
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 07:41 |
Shadowyzard wrote:
^ Lol. Sheer stupidity. We, in Turkey, have such troglodytes too. They can equal, if not top, this person.
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." Albert Einstein |
I love this Einstein quote: "I don't know what weapons will be used in World War 3, but I know what weapons will be used in World War 4: Sticks and Stones"
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Sea of Peas
Status: Offline
Points: 50966
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 09:39 |
No doubt Boebert is following in the footsteps of her hero, who gave us such pearls of wisdom like raking the floors of the forests, windmills cause cancer, the airports of the Revolutionary War, the moon is part of Mars, that Hurricane Florence was the wettest "from the standpoint of water," needing voter ID to buy cereal, exercise depletes the body's reserves of energy, injecting people with light and disinfectants, "person, woman, man, camera, TV," flushing toilets 10 or 15 times, the number of people at his inauguration, when he met with the president of the U.S. Virgin Islands (which is him), the border wall he was building in Colorado, nuking hurricanes, among others. The dumbest four years of my life, and it appears more years to come thanks to his protégés.
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---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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JD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18446
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 10:03 |
^In the past, when leading teams on Continuous Improvement projects, I used to start by saying "No idea is a bad idea, all ideas deserve to be considered". I'm beginning to think I need to re-visit that approach.
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65248
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 12:47 |
Easy Money wrote:
Re Boebert: The implication that only 'liberals' favor gun legislation is purposefully manipulative. The idea that all people can be divided up into two neat little camps of thought is lazy thinking and childish. Most local police departments favor gun legislation and these people are hardly what I would call 'liberals'. On the other hand, there are plenty of left wing types that see unfettered gun ownership as essential to prevent an oppressive government. | Important point.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65248
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 16:36 |
It's all starting to make sense: Trump supporters are afraid. They're afraid of almost everything they don't know, like, or understand. It explains anti-immigration, guns, antivax, anti-government... anti everything. And the fear of God, of course.
Except the desire to control a woman's reproductive rights. That they embrace.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13054
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Posted: October 15 2021 at 22:32 |
Atavachron wrote:
Except the desire to control a woman's reproductive rights. That they embrace. |
Yes, I believe they would refer to that as "the elephant in the womb."
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65248
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Posted: October 16 2021 at 00:47 |
We need a third, moderate Purple Party. Utah's Evan McMullin is right, there are more people now with traditionally opposed politics who'd gladly get together to beat Trump's people.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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