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MortSahlFan View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 05 2021 at 14:46
Movies, comedy, music, but someone who's a star, well known. I used "had" because someone living can still change, and make friends. If you can only think of living people, try to pick the oldest, since chances are someone isn't going to suddenly start becoming social at the age of 80.

It could be a loner, or it could be someone who has a spouse and children and prefers being a homebody when they're not on the road or in the studio.

Artists tend to be introspective, but I heard from one that being famous is very lonely. It could be someone who might have wanted friends, but being a star might have made it difficult to hanging out with guys you went to school with, or even going out in general to have the chance to meet new people. It could be the nicest star, too. But it could be something related to something like agoraphobia, too. I just didn't want the title to automatically give the idea that a certain star has a personality defect - but it could be.
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Janis Joplin might have had an outgoing persona, but in core she was very lonly, it seems to paint that picture in documentary.
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Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Janis Joplin might have had an outgoing persona, but in core she was very lonly, it seems to paint that picture in documentary.


The one where she finally finds a mate, but chooses heroin over him?
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Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

Janis Joplin might have had an outgoing persona, but in core she was very lonly, it seems to paint that picture in documentary.


The one where she finally finds a mate, but chooses heroin over him?

Hi,

See the film "Janis: Little Girl Blue" ... I think that is a bit more unreal than otherwise, but it might have some truth in it.
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Hi,

I just got done reading (again after 40 years!!!!) the book ... NO ONE HERE GETS OUT ALIVE, and I am not sure that it is all about being lonely, as much as it might be about the person trying to explain themselves and what they see. In Jim Morrison's life, there were/are a lot of his feelings that he wanted to express in film, but the conventionality of the medium prevented him from not only showing anything, but also for anyone else to bother considering what it was that he was doing with film!

That left him, alone with his words and wording about one thing or another, and then express himself on stage when he was drunk enough ... which the band understands and knows that even when very drunk, Jim would eventually pick up a vibe in the music, and get on it and do his thing, which was not a problem for the band when he changed lyrics and did something else in the middle of it, which many times, worked better than otherwise, and in at least one album even sounds a bit disjointed, giving us the idea that more of it is missing (The Soft Parade).

In the end, I imagine that Jim's drinking simply ripped his body up and it gave out. But the loneliness and lack of understanding, is scary when you read the book, and how he works with it, sometimes doing daring things and other times just being plain rude and what not. But in the end, it always seemed to show how much people wanted from him, that was not what he was really about. He would have been considered a silly Byron in LA, but instead was simply remembered as a drunk that got thrown out of many places, and often not only the drinking but the material he sang on stage, when "The End" was one night done at the Whiskey and it blew everyone's mind, but the owners fired the band ... only to find that they became the biggest act on the basis of at least that show!

I think, in the end, that being misunderstood is what most of this is all about. I think Jim might have had a nice bunch of work in film, that eventually was left to some folks like Jodorowski and others that were doing "visually" the same sort of imagery that Jim was trying to convey, which the folks at film school in the LA area would never accept since they are all about making sure you know Hitchcock and Scorcese ... as "masters" of film, ignoring the rest of the world ... and at that time, Hollywood did not even know what the "New Wave" was about in France, or the English version of the "Angry Young Men" ... which was lighting up the stages left and right!

Rejection is a two way street, and it hurts.

I am not longer (ever) worried about rejection, but it has shut me down some. I write, I say now, for MYSELF and I don't give a damn about anyone else since it is all from my inner dreams and visions, and has little to do with the outside world of my head and mind. Thus, it could be said I was ALONE, but I am not LONELY per se, since I can easily turn to music and write some more, by allowing my stream of consciousness to run a muck. 

At that point, what most folks don't understand, what I write (as well as many other artists) is not about "meaning" for anyone. It's about getting down the completeness of what you are seeing, and one thing we know is that it only happens once in that particular second and can not be repeated since at a different time and place it will be different ... and this is something that Jim Morrison understood, whether we believed him or not, but this is not something that we will EVER take on some time to study about any writer, painter, or true musician (not the top ten goon!) that lives for the life of his notes, and could not ever concern himself/herself with how others saw it ... the whole thing was not about the outside, but your inner seeing!

(Sorry ... I can write about this forever!)


Edited by moshkito - October 06 2021 at 08:47
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Frank Zappa always said he had no friends.
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Frank Zappa always said he had no friends.

Hi,

Agreed ... but I also think that he was very concerned that most folks did not understand with his idea of "serious music" which a lot of his work is about, even though it may be disguised. In this sense, yeah, he would likely say that he had no friends, which is hard to believe since folks like George Duke and a few of the musicians he worked with loved his work dearly and appreciated some of the freedom they were given, and George Duke personifies that.

But what was far out, for me, despite how different so much of that music was, got clearer in my mind when he was invited to do "serious music" in Europe, but in America the "fans" only wanted him to play his guitar until he got mad one day and put it down and conducted the whole concert, which SHOULD show us where his mind was in terms of the music, instead of it being just a fan generated kiss-ash thing!

But above all, the various things that bothered Frank the most are well chronicled in his book, and specially about the whole thing in England in court about a few pieces of music. Talk about ridiculous ... it is enough to make you mad and write a whole album about it!
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I just got done reading (again after 40 years!!!!) the book ... NO ONE HERE GETS OUT ALIVE, and I am not sure that it is all about being lonely, as much as it might be about the person trying to explain themselves and what they see. In Jim Morrison's life, there were/are a lot of his feelings that he wanted to express in film, but the conventionality of the medium prevented him from not only showing anything, but also for anyone else to bother considering what it was that he was doing with film!

That left him, alone with his words and wording about one thing or another, and then express himself on stage when he was drunk enough ... which the band understands and knows that even when very drunk, Jim would eventually pick up a vibe in the music, and get on it and do his thing, which was not a problem for the band when he changed lyrics and did something else in the middle of it, which many times, worked better than otherwise, and in at least one album even sounds a bit disjointed, giving us the idea that more of it is missing (The Soft Parade).

In the end, I imagine that Jim's drinking simply ripped his body up and it gave out. But the loneliness and lack of understanding, is scary when you read the book, and how he works with it, sometimes doing daring things and other times just being plain rude and what not. But in the end, it always seemed to show how much people wanted from him, that was not what he was really about. He would have been considered a silly Byron in LA, but instead was simply remembered as a drunk that got thrown out of many places, and often not only the drinking but the material he sang on stage, when "The End" was one night done at the Whiskey and it blew everyone's mind, but the owners fired the band ... only to find that they became the biggest act on the basis of at least that show!

I think, in the end, that being misunderstood is what most of this is all about. I think Jim might have had a nice bunch of work in film, that eventually was left to some folks like Jodorowski and others that were doing "visually" the same sort of imagery that Jim was trying to convey, which the folks at film school in the LA area would never accept since they are all about making sure you know Hitchcock and Scorcese ... as "masters" of film, ignoring the rest of the world ... and at that time, Hollywood did not even know what the "New Wave" was about in France, or the English version of the "Angry Young Men" ... which was lighting up the stages left and right!

Rejection is a two way street, and it hurts.

I am not longer (ever) worried about rejection, but it has shut me down some. I write, I say now, for MYSELF and I don't give a damn about anyone else since it is all from my inner dreams and visions, and has little to do with the outside world of my head and mind. Thus, it could be said I was ALONE, but I am not LONELY per se, since I can easily turn to music and write some more, by allowing my stream of consciousness to run a muck. 

At that point, what most folks don't understand, what I write (as well as many other artists) is not about "meaning" for anyone. It's about getting down the completeness of what you are seeing, and one thing we know is that it only happens once in that particular second and can not be repeated since at a different time and place it will be different ... and this is something that Jim Morrison understood, whether we believed him or not, but this is not something that we will EVER take on some time to study about any writer, painter, or true musician (not the top ten goon!) that lives for the life of his notes, and could not ever concern himself/herself with how others saw it ... the whole thing was not about the outside, but your inner seeing!

(Sorry ... I can write about this forever!)


I actually read that book again after initially reading it in 1995.. I had read about 10-15 books after first reading "No One Here Gets Out Alive", which many people close to him calling it "Nothing Here But A Lot Of Lies".. His brother Andy said that they only posted the negative, and that maybe Jim did something mean to Andy, but it doesn't show all the good things he did.

I recommend "Friends Gathered Together", "Summer With Morrison", and books from his time in school, with former friends and classmates talking about him then. He was always that way, but I think alcohol just made things worse, but at the same time, he also was more revealing. I actually like listening to the Miami concert. Not for the music, but for his laments.

It doesn't seem like Jim had friends. Drinking buddies, band-mates, but I think Robby said that Jim never did anything, and that he had no hobbies. Jim said himself in the Rolling Stone interview that he no longer read, and didn't write much.

What I really like to do is to read interviews and articles written while he was alive, to avoid the mythology, to avoid retrospective historical revisionism, and referencing that piece of sh*t movie by oliver stone.


I also write, but lately I only write what something that impresses me, but I have things all over the place, and could be a lot more organized.... I'd recommend people doing this online, in an e-mail, so it automatically saves.. I went to throw some things in my car to make more room in my house, and discovered than 28 of my notebooks were destroyed... Travels to Europe, Australia, Asia, and even an entire journal I had in 10th grade.. The rain washed away all the ink. If I would have only had it covered in plastic, but I never thought rain would travel so far and hard to destroy my sh*t.
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Points: 37253 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2021 at 12:47
I can't say that he had no friends, but I think that Jimmy Savile lost quite a few friends-- not to mention allies and admirers.
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