The American Politics Thread

omphaloskepsis wrote: Why don't you do your own research on Uttar Pradesh's handling of Ivermectin?  There are plenty of articles on the subject. In case you don't know how to research, I'll post a few links.  You do know how to cut and Paste...don't you Suitkees?

Yes I do, and so I did do my research, because apparently you don't. Do you ever question the sources you bring forward? Apparently not.

So, apparently this is all old news: May 12! Bringing this as news in September, what can it mean? They must have some kind of agenda...

Again, MSN is just aggregating news: the link you gave is exactly the article of the Indian Express you also linked to and which is thus dated 12 May...

Operation Disclosure, where you link to, is thus bringing four months old news as news. Is that normal to you? This is how they present themselves: "Operation Disclosure is dedicated to bringing you the latest news relating to the Great Awakening, the Global Financial Reset, Exopolitics, Geopolitics, [Q]Anon, and disclosure. Our mission is to also bring you raw intel from various sources focused on exposing the [D]eep [S]tate/Cabal and their downfall."

You really put your trust in this kind of sources?

And let's not talk about the article in Citizens Journal, written by Natural News "journalist" Ethan Huff... This is how Natural News is known at Media Bias / Fact Check: tin foil hat on the Conspiracy level and considered "quackery" on the pseudo science level - "NPR.news  is a right-wing conspiracy and pseudoscience website that routinely publishes false information. The founder is Mike Adams, who owns several Questionable websites such as Natural News and News Target. NPR.news is a part of the Natural News Network. This website lacks transparency and does not disclose ownership. (...) This website publishes disinformation regarding election fraud during the 2020 election."

So, you put your trust in this kind of outlets instead of checking who's behind it or checking the most direct sources?

You're right to say that in Uttar Pradesh things are going much better than in many other states/countries (especially compared to the State of Texas...), but your information is just not right. Instead of finding your information in unreliable opinion brokers, why don't you do your research and find it where everyone would go for at least some kind of reliable information: India's Ministry of Health and Family Welfare (click on the "State Data" button on the right to disclose the information). 196 active cases, with a very tiny rise compared to yesterday. 22888 cumulated deaths (one up, since yesterday). Yes, those are different figures compared to the 680000 deaths in your country. And that is not just because of Ivermectin... (this is a link to your National Institutes of Health, but maybe you don't trust your national institutes anymore... And here is one from your FDA about Ivermectin)

I have a Biology degree and an RN degree. I've worked with Scientific method for decades. As an undergraduate, I worked in an epidemiology lab.  I suggest you familiarize yourself with scientific method. If you did that than you would know-

 When your scientific sample is 241 million people ( That's Huge!) and your vaccination rate is less than 10% (significantly less than Western Countries). And Ivermectin is the main drug that you attack Covid with...You have all the data you need to suggest that Ivermectin works against Covid.  If the Ivermectin sample was 800 people, I could lend some cred to your argument.  America's number of vaccinated falls far below 241 million. Using your Stork argument...Why should we believe in Vaccines? 

Analogies make poor arguments.  What do Storks have to do with babies or Covid. When it comes to science...Nothing. However, Ivermectin- which won the inventor the 2015 Nobel Prize for Medicine ( At most, they only give one Medical Nobel Prize a year)- has everything to do science and with destroying Covid viruses. You'll have to better than storks. 

Compare Uttar Pradesh with USA, UK, France, Italy, and Israel. 

How about this website?  You should stop accusing my head of what happens in your head. A psychologist would say that you are projecting, Steven. 

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/pfizer-inc/summary?id=D000000138

omphaloskepsis wrote: I have a Biology degree and an RN degree. I've worked with Scientific method for decades.

Oh, nice, the authority argument. But apparently your "scientific method" has its flaws...

omphaloskepsis wrote: You have all the data you need to suggest that Ivermectin works against Covid. If the Ivermectin sample was 800 people, I could lend some cred to your argument.  America's number of vaccinated falls far below 241 million. Using your Stork argument...Why should we believe in Vaccines?

You say it yourself: you have data to suggest... You are suggesting that the 241 million of inhabitants of Uttar Pradesh were part of a medical research group (sample). They weren't. You turn them into your statistics because it suits your argument, but it doesn't take into account other parameters at all. For example, Uttar Pradesh had also a major lockdown with rather important restrictions that probably also helped to prevent to spread the virus. The problem is only that it is so difficult to put into statistics, unless you would want to make believe that the lockdown measures in that state were responsible for the low number of cases beyond May. Why was it Invermectin and not the lockdown measures that kept the figures in Uttar Pradesh so low? Do you have a reasonable answer to that with your Biology degree and scientific methods?

In my opinion, you are dragging yourself into a lure just because you want to believe in it, not because it has much to do with reality, science (scientific methods) or being the result of "critical thinking".

SteveG wrote: I wanted to check out all the links before commenting on this post, and all I can say is that it's excellent! Well done Mr. S.

Thanks Steve, appreciated. My main issue is the (lack of) media literacy of people: critical reading, thinking, questioning the sources (who writes/speaks, who pays for it...). There is so much nonsense published nowadays everywhere (not just the internet), that people should be taught how to approach the media. Diversification of sources, if possible of different bias, is very important to get the measure of things, but it seems a tendency that people just don't want to get/know the measure of things and only want to read what is in line with their opinion...

omphaloskepsis wrote: Bottom Line- Shouldn't the lowest rate of Covid in the World be worthy of America and the UK conducting scientific studies As Soon as Possible on Ivermectin?  Don't you want to know the truth? Would it anger you if Ivermectin is extremely effective against Covid?

No, not at all, that would be a fantastic thing. It just isn't the case, yet. Medical studies rather show that Ivermectin is not effective against Covid-19 (see my links above to two of your national health institutions). You don't address my question about how to differentiate the impact of Ivermectin and the lockdown measures in those statistics regarding Uttar Pradesh, probably because we just can't (yet, because we didn't do that research, yet), which means we just don't know. Still, you privilege the Ivermectin thing, probably because this is what "your" media (those that you select to link here) promote and what you want to believe in because it is going against the grain of mainstream (international) media and corresponds to what Trumpian Republicans want to make believe (without proper scientific base!).

I'm very sad to read that about 60% of the Republican base think it is important to support the 2020 election lie. Shows that sincerity and honesty don't have much to do anymore in Republican thinking. And this all overflows to other domains of society, notably health care. I've said it before, but this refusal to ponder is rather incomprehensible to me.

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If you really have such a degree then you should know that you need a double blind study for this.

Double blind studies are preferable. However, a population of over 240 million people is a huge sample. Thousands of time bigger than most double blind studies. Certainly, a providence of 240 million people suffering only 0-2 Covid deaths a day, deserves American Scientific scrutiny. Why hasn't Biden checked out what Uttar Pradesh is doing to combat Covid.  Is it the vaccination rate?  Would you say that less than 10% vaccine rate suggests that vaccines are stopping Covid in Uttar Pradesh? However, when the Uttar Pradesh government distributed Ivermectin to the population...overnight Covid dropped to the lowest level in the world.  Don't you think that suggests that the rest of the World should conduct Double Blind studies on Ivermectin? Why isn't the American Government conducting Ivermectin Double Blind Studies?

How does scientific method begins.  A scientist sees a correlation between this and that. Like the scientist notices something like an apple falling on his head.  Or let's say a scientist notices that days go by (where there are zero covid deaths) in a population of 241 million people. The scientist asks himself," What is this place of 241 million people doing different than the rest of the world?"  

He finds out the State of 241 million people has an extremely low vaccination rate, yet the population has free access to Ivermectin.   The scientist makes predictions such as.. If we give Ivermectin to a large sample of people and we give a placebo to a large sample of people (control group)  from the same population...then I predict that the Ivermectin group will suffer less issues than the control group with Covid....Double Blind Test is preformed. After double blind test is performed,  the Scientist performs stat tests like a T-Test. Afterwards the scientist can make a statement with T-test percentages ...such as,"The data suggests there correlation between Ivermectin working against  Covid virus infections. The data suggests a of 98.7% (+ or - 1%) correlation.   

If Covid is the greatest emergency of our lifetimes, then Why isn't the rest of the world performing Ivermectin -Covid studies? Especially since Ivermectin seems to be working great in Uttar Pradesh.  What's more other Indian states have followed Uttar Pradesh'es example, and they too have experienced Covid in heavy decline.

omphaloskepsis wrote: The article you supplied said that the Ivermectin study was withdrawn because of "Ethical Reasons"  What does that have to do with whether Ivermectin works or not? The western media has attacked Ivermectin as a Horse dewormer. It's true, Ivermectin works with horses, humans and other mammals. But that's not why the inventor of Ivermectin won the 2015 Nobel Prize for Medicine.  He won the Nobel Prize because Ivermectin destroys viruses in humans.

You're really rambling now (amalgamating many things; that's not scientific, that's rhetoric...). You know that Covid-19 didn't exist in 2015? Apparently, you still haven't followed the links to the authoritative and well sourced sites I gave you. You're talking to the wind now, not to me.