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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 05:23
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

It's your body, but it's Biden's choice.
It's your body, but it's Texas Gov. Abbot's choice.

Edited by SteveG - September 14 2021 at 05:24
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Points: 51060 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 05:32
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Let me rephrase that--   her friends and neighbors will be encouraged, possibly even legally obligated, to turn her in.   Please understand, to those of us who know their conservative neighbors as largely decent, family-oriented, church going folk, this is sickening and barely to be believed.  

What happened to chivalry, charity, honor, do unto others?   Southern hospitality, christian charity?

Shame.



1. Nobody is going to get prosecuted for not turning a pregnant woman in for having an abortion. I'll wager money on that. 
2. Neighbors will mind their own business. They won't turn women in for abortion. You're worried about stuff that has not happened and won't happen. Texas won't send a woman to prison for an abortion. Heck, I know Texans who would personally drive a woman across a state border to get abortion. A woman they don't know, they would help her out.
3. The only way a woman would be prosecuted for an Abortion in Texas is if she has one of those "abortions" where she delivers a full term baby and she talks somebody into killing the baby.
Unless something like that happens, I predict that not one Texas woman will be prosecuted for an abortion.

Do you really think that Texas will prosecute a bunch of women for abortions?  


Yes, Texas will prosecute anyone involved in having or procuring an abortion. And when money is an incentive, Texas neighbors will turn on each other, and claim they did it in the name of God to free their guilty consciences.

Actually, I'm not sure "prosecute" is the right word. I believe that people that aid a woman getting an abortion get brought up on a civil suit worth $10,000 plus legal fees to the individual reporting them. It's a terribly confusing law, but boils down to a culture of vigilantism. So, in some ways it's like the old American West in the 19th century but without the shootouts in the middle of town.

The side effect of all of this is that the tables could be turned on the right. The left could use the same vigilantism to take away their guns. The Supreme Court opened up a can of worms by not addressing this and is a sign that having too many conservatives on the court could upend many precedents that we've all come to accept over many decades. Considering it was a majority conservative court that made Roe v. Wade the law it is today just shows how far conservatism has warped into something unrecognizable from what is was 50 years ago.
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 05:39
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Let me rephrase that--   her friends and neighbors will be encouraged, possibly even legally obligated, to turn her in.   Please understand, to those of us who know their conservative neighbors as largely decent, family-oriented, church going folk, this is sickening and barely to be believed.  

What happened to chivalry, charity, honor, do unto others?   Southern hospitality, christian charity?

Shame.



1. Nobody is going to get prosecuted for not turning a pregnant woman in for having an abortion. I'll wager money on that. 
2. Neighbors will mind their own business. They won't turn women in for abortion. You're worried about stuff that has not happened and won't happen. Texas won't send a woman to prison for an abortion. Heck, I know Texans who would personally drive a woman across a state border to get abortion. A woman they don't know, they would help her out.
3. The only way a woman would be prosecuted for an Abortion in Texas is if she has one of those "abortions" where she delivers a full term baby and she talks somebody into killing the baby.
Unless something like that happens, I predict that not one Texas woman will be prosecuted for an abortion.

Do you really think that Texas will prosecute a bunch of women for abortions?  


Yes, Texas will prosecute anyone involved in having or procuring an abortion. And when money is an incentive, Texas neighbors will turn on each other, and claim they did it in the name of God to free their guilty consciences.

Actually, I'm not sure "prosecute" is the right word. I believe that people that aid a woman getting an abortion get brought up on a civil suit worth $10,000 plus legal fees to the individual reporting them. It's a terribly confusing law, but boils down to a culture of vigilantism. So, in some ways it's like the old American West in the 19th century but without the shootouts in the middle of town.

The side effect of all of this is that the tables could be turned on the right. The left could use the same vigilantism to take away their guns. The Supreme Court opened up a can of worms by not addressing this and is a sign that having too many conservatives on the court could upend many precedents that we've all come to accept over many decades. Considering it was a majority conservative court that made Roe v. Wade the law it is today just shows how far conservatism has warped into something unrecognizable from what is was 50 years ago.
Oh, absolutely true. It was a clever slight of hand by Cindy to say that no one would be prosecuted as it's not a criminal offense, but it's too entailed, as you stated, to get into it deeper.
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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
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Points: 6343 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 06:42
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You do know, that Texas allows abortions up through six weeks?    

And do you think that's a fair time limit? Why is there no leeway for women that are unable to tell if they're pregnant before this six week barrier?
It's amazing to me that this statement would come out of the mouth of a woman. Men have no clue, but most women know that it takes longer than 6 weeks to know they are pregnant, which is the point of the law. Perhaps, coming from Cindy, this shouldn't be surprising.

As usual Steve puts words into my mouth. Or  Steve's reading comprehension is below  average.

Did I say all women know if they are pregnant at 6 weeks?  No.
Did I say I approve of the law? No. You have no idea how I feel about abortion.
All I said was, that the 6 week provision in the law existed. And that I believe no women will be prosecuted under the law. Except under the circumstances I outlined. Can you comprehend, Steve? 




Edited by omphaloskepsis - September 14 2021 at 06:45
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Points: 6343 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 07:08
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

What was the point of Biden, Harris, and the Democrats running for House and Senate in 2020, of promising a $15 dollar minimum wage? Or Medicare for All?  Or $10,000 student loan forgiveness?
The Democrats have majorities in House and Senate. Democrats got the presidency. If they can't keep their promises when they control the government...when will they?  What's the point of Biden promising stuff that he has no intention of delivering? 

But just saying they "have majorities" ignores that it's a very slim lead that's incredibly difficult to get past filibusters and Democrats like Joe Manchin. Biden made these promises before he knew how the results of the election were going to turn out. Instead of whining and complaining about it, why don't you contact the Republican representatives in Congress from your state and try convincing them that these are things worthwhile for them to vote for (assuming you're bringing these up because you support them)??

I don't remember you being this upset about Trump's failed attempt to change health care. I also don't recall you being upset about equipment left behind from his pullout from Syria. All I seem to remember was how fixated you were with Hunter Biden. Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but that's the impression you left me and I apologize if that isn't the impression you wanted to portray.





1. I contacted my Republican representative by phone and e-mail in February.
2. Biden could gift Student Loan forgiveness of $10,000 by executive order. 
3. I complained about healthcare change in this exact thread. But you're not paid to keep up with viewpoints I expressed on this thread years ago. That brings me to point #4.

4. In this thread I complained about the Republican version of Joe Machin. Namely Senator John McCain who cast the deciding vote for Obamacare. ( John McCain voted against Obamacare more than once when the GOP was the minority.) Funny, how often party platform promises are lost by one vote. This happens with the GOP and the Democrats.

Case in point. AOC's squad has swelled to seven members. All seven Squad members promised to defund police. However, three voted to fund the Capitol police two billion dollars. The other four members voted "Present".  The bill to fund Capitol police passed by one vote. It's obvious that the seven Squad members coordinated their votes. 

5. You are right. I did not complain about Trump leaving equipment in Syria.  However, America is still in Syria. America occupies the Syrian oil fields. Biden just made a commitment to stay in Syria. Biden just made a commitment to continue sanctions against Syria to starve the Syrian people and force regime change.  I remain anti-war. I want America to pull out of the Middle East. Throughout this thread I've expressed this viewpoint. Here is a video detailing Biden's commitment to Syrian regime change.  are lost by one vote. Since, John McCain voted against Obamacare more than once when the GOP was the minority. This happens with the GOP and the Democrats. I

Case in point. AOC's squad has swelled to seven members. All seven Squad members promised to defund police. However, three voted to fund the Capitol police two billion dollars. The other four members voted "Present".  The bill to fund Capitol police passed by one vote. It's obvious that the seven Squad members coordinated their votes. 

5. You are right. I did not complain about Trump leaving equipment in Syria.  However, America is still in Syria. America occupies the Syrian oil fields. Biden just made a commitment to stay in Syria. Biden just made a commitment to continue sanctions against Syria to starve the Syrian people and force regime change.  I remain anti-war. I want America to pull out of the Middle East. Throughout this thread I've expressed this viewpoint. Here is a video detailing Biden's commitment to Syrian regime change.








Edited by omphaloskepsis - September 14 2021 at 07:22
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 08:57
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You do know, that Texas allows abortions up through six weeks?    


And do you think that's a fair time limit? Why is there no leeway for women that are unable to tell if they're pregnant before this six week barrier?
It's amazing to me that this statement would come out of the mouth of a woman. Men have no clue, but most women know that it takes longer than 6 weeks to know they are pregnant, which is the point of the law. Perhaps, coming from Cindy, this shouldn't be surprising.


As usual Steve puts words into my mouth. Or  Steve's reading comprehension is below  average.

Did I say all women know if they are pregnant at 6 weeks?  No.
Did I say I approve of the law? No. You have no idea how I feel about abortion.
All I said was, that the 6 week provision in the law existed. And that I believe no women will be prosecuted under the law. Except under the circumstances I outlined. Can you comprehend, Steve? 



I comprehend that you are now engaged in a slight of
hand with semantics. You stated that every woman can still get an abortion in the first 6 weeks, like everything is fine and what's the big problem. I'm use to your slimey discussion skills, and talking around the statements you make doesn't wash with me. The only good thing about your rants and posts is that it reminds the rest of us what an ass Trump was, and how much better Biden looks in retrospect. So, thanks for that. Even a broken clock like you has it's value.

Edited by SteveG - September 14 2021 at 08:59
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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
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Points: 6343 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 10:00
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You do know, that Texas allows abortions up through six weeks?    


And do you think that's a fair time limit? Why is there no leeway for women that are unable to tell if they're pregnant before this six week barrier?
It's amazing to me that this statement would come out of the mouth of a woman. Men have no clue, but most women know that it takes longer than 6 weeks to know they are pregnant, which is the point of the law. Perhaps, coming from Cindy, this shouldn't be surprising.


As usual Steve puts words into my mouth. Or  Steve's reading comprehension is below  average.

Did I say all women know if they are pregnant at 6 weeks?  No.
Did I say I approve of the law? No. You have no idea how I feel about abortion.
All I said was, that the 6 week provision in the law existed. And that I believe no women will be prosecuted under the law. Except under the circumstances I outlined. Can you comprehend, Steve? 



I comprehend that you are now engaged in a slight of
hand with semantics. You stated that every woman can still get an abortion in the first 6 weeks, like everything is fine and what's the big problem. I'm use to your slimey discussion skills, and talking around the statements you make doesn't wash with me. The only good thing about your rants and posts is that it reminds the rest of us what an ass Trump was, and how much better Biden looks in retrospect. So, thanks for that. Even a broken clock like you has it's value.

Instead of attacking me personally, why don't you try and make a lucid political point, Steven? 
I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  Like I said years ago in this current thread...I voted for the Green Party candidate- Jill Stein. Look it up with the progarchives search feature. I dislike the billionaire class. In 2020, I voted for Barbara Stone.  When I was young, I was a democrat. But now, the democrats take more money from the billionaire class than the GOP. So I vote for the People's Party. The People Party promise to not take any money from the Billionaire class. The final People's Party platform will be voted on at the end of the year. 

Steve, if you are interested in NOT supporting Mega corporations/Billionaire class/Industrial Complex, I suggest you look into the People Party's website. 

https://peoplesparty.org/
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Points: 51060 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 10:34
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

What was the point of Biden, Harris, and the Democrats running for House and Senate in 2020, of promising a $15 dollar minimum wage? Or Medicare for All?  Or $10,000 student loan forgiveness?
The Democrats have majorities in House and Senate. Democrats got the presidency. If they can't keep their promises when they control the government...when will they?  What's the point of Biden promising stuff that he has no intention of delivering? 

But just saying they "have majorities" ignores that it's a very slim lead that's incredibly difficult to get past filibusters and Democrats like Joe Manchin. Biden made these promises before he knew how the results of the election were going to turn out. Instead of whining and complaining about it, why don't you contact the Republican representatives in Congress from your state and try convincing them that these are things worthwhile for them to vote for (assuming you're bringing these up because you support them)??

I don't remember you being this upset about Trump's failed attempt to change health care. I also don't recall you being upset about equipment left behind from his pullout from Syria. All I seem to remember was how fixated you were with Hunter Biden. Perhaps I'm wrong about this, but that's the impression you left me and I apologize if that isn't the impression you wanted to portray.

1. I contacted my Republican representative by phone and e-mail in February.
2. Biden could gift Student Loan forgiveness of $10,000 by executive order. 
3. I complained about healthcare change in this exact thread. But you're not paid to keep up with viewpoints I expressed on this thread years ago. That brings me to point #4.

4. In this thread I complained about the Republican version of Joe Machin. Namely Senator John McCain who cast the deciding vote for Obamacare. ( John McCain voted against Obamacare more than once when the GOP was the minority.) Funny, how often party platform promises are lost by one vote. This happens with the GOP and the Democrats.

Case in point. AOC's squad has swelled to seven members. All seven Squad members promised to defund police. However, three voted to fund the Capitol police two billion dollars. The other four members voted "Present".  The bill to fund Capitol police passed by one vote. It's obvious that the seven Squad members coordinated their votes. 

5. You are right. I did not complain about Trump leaving equipment in Syria.  However, America is still in Syria. America occupies the Syrian oil fields. Biden just made a commitment to stay in Syria. Biden just made a commitment to continue sanctions against Syria to starve the Syrian people and force regime change.  I remain anti-war. I want America to pull out of the Middle East. Throughout this thread I've expressed this viewpoint. Here is a video detailing Biden's commitment to Syrian regime change.

Good, I'm glad you did contact your representative. I take back my comment about this. Did you get an adequate reply?

My congressman only sends out blanket replies and I have not voted for him, nor will I ever. My one senator does support these things. My other senator doesn't and also sends out blanket replies. He's retiring, so I'm hoping we can vote in a better person to take his place.

I think we're both in agreement on Syria and, like you, I don't want any wars. This is something I hope Biden changes course on. The elephant in the room with the Middle East has always been petroleum. But soon I suspect the bigger elephant will be climate change. Whether that changes U.S. policies remains to be seen. 
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 11:51
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You do know, that Texas allows abortions up through six weeks?    


And do you think that's a fair time limit? Why is there no leeway for women that are unable to tell if they're pregnant before this six week barrier?
It's amazing to me that this statement would come out of the mouth of a woman. Men have no clue, but most women know that it takes longer than 6 weeks to know they are pregnant, which is the point of the law. Perhaps, coming from Cindy, this shouldn't be surprising.


As usual Steve puts words into my mouth. Or  Steve's reading comprehension is below  average.

Did I say all women know if they are pregnant at 6 weeks?  No.
Did I say I approve of the law? No. You have no idea how I feel about abortion.
All I said was, that the 6 week provision in the law existed. And that I believe no women will be prosecuted under the law. Except under the circumstances I outlined. Can you comprehend, Steve? 



I comprehend that you are now engaged in a slight of
hand with semantics. You stated that every woman can still get an abortion in the first 6 weeks, like everything is fine and what's the big problem. I'm use to your slimey discussion skills, and talking around the statements you make doesn't wash with me. The only good thing about your rants and posts is that it reminds the rest of us what an ass Trump was, and how much better Biden looks in retrospect. So, thanks for that. Even a broken clock like you has it's value.

Instead of attacking me personally, why don't you try and make a lucid political point, Steven? 
I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  Like I said years ago in this current thread...I voted for the Green Party candidate- Jill Stein. Look it up with the progarchives search feature. I dislike the billionaire class. In 2020, I voted for Barbara Stone.  When I was young, I was a democrat. But now, the democrats take more money from the billionaire class than the GOP. So I vote for the People's Party. The People Party promise to not take any money from the Billionaire class. The final People's Party platform will be voted on at the end of the year. 

Steve, if you are interested in NOT supporting Mega corporations/Billionaire class/Industrial Complex, I suggest you look into the People Party's website. 

https://peoplesparty.org/


I don't believe a word you say.
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CosmicVibration View Drop Down
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Points: 1396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 12:06
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You do know, that Texas allows abortions up through six weeks?    


And do you think that's a fair time limit? Why is there no leeway for women that are unable to tell if they're pregnant before this six week barrier?
It's amazing to me that this statement would come out of the mouth of a woman. Men have no clue, but most women know that it takes longer than 6 weeks to know they are pregnant, which is the point of the law. Perhaps, coming from Cindy, this shouldn't be surprising.


As usual Steve puts words into my mouth. Or  Steve's reading comprehension is below  average.

Did I say all women know if they are pregnant at 6 weeks?  No.
Did I say I approve of the law? No. You have no idea how I feel about abortion.
All I said was, that the 6 week provision in the law existed. And that I believe no women will be prosecuted under the law. Except under the circumstances I outlined. Can you comprehend, Steve? 



I comprehend that you are now engaged in a slight of
hand with semantics. You stated that every woman can still get an abortion in the first 6 weeks, like everything is fine and what's the big problem. I'm use to your slimey discussion skills, and talking around the statements you make doesn't wash with me. The only good thing about your rants and posts is that it reminds the rest of us what an ass Trump was, and how much better Biden looks in retrospect. So, thanks for that. Even a broken clock like you has it's value.

Instead of attacking me personally, why don't you try and make a lucid political point, Steven? 
I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  Like I said years ago in this current thread...I voted for the Green Party candidate- Jill Stein. Look it up with the progarchives search feature. I dislike the billionaire class. In 2020, I voted for Barbara Stone.  When I was young, I was a democrat. But now, the democrats take more money from the billionaire class than the GOP. So I vote for the People's Party. The People Party promise to not take any money from the Billionaire class. The final People's Party platform will be voted on at the end of the year. 

Steve, if you are interested in NOT supporting Mega corporations/Billionaire class/Industrial Complex, I suggest you look into the People Party's website. 

https://peoplesparty.org/


I don't believe a word you say.

When someone doesn’t have a counter argument, they rely on personal attacks in hope of discrediting any opposing information.  Steve uses this tactic all the time and it only demonstrates his weak position.
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I'm voting for the Unicorn Party.      

Edited by Easy Money - September 14 2021 at 12:14
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 12:24
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

You do know, that Texas allows abortions up through six weeks?    


And do you think that's a fair time limit? Why is there no leeway for women that are unable to tell if they're pregnant before this six week barrier?
It's amazing to me that this statement would come out of the mouth of a woman. Men have no clue, but most women know that it takes longer than 6 weeks to know they are pregnant, which is the point of the law. Perhaps, coming from Cindy, this shouldn't be surprising.


As usual Steve puts words into my mouth. Or  Steve's reading comprehension is below  average.

Did I say all women know if they are pregnant at 6 weeks?  No.
Did I say I approve of the law? No. You have no idea how I feel about abortion.
All I said was, that the 6 week provision in the law existed. And that I believe no women will be prosecuted under the law. Except under the circumstances I outlined. Can you comprehend, Steve? 



I comprehend that you are now engaged in a slight of
hand with semantics. You stated that every woman can still get an abortion in the first 6 weeks, like everything is fine and what's the big problem. I'm use to your slimey discussion skills, and talking around the statements you make doesn't wash with me. The only good thing about your rants and posts is that it reminds the rest of us what an ass Trump was, and how much better Biden looks in retrospect. So, thanks for that. Even a broken clock like you has it's value.


Instead of attacking me personally, why don't you try and make a lucid political point, Steven? 
I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  Like I said years ago in this current thread...I voted for the Green Party candidate- Jill Stein. Look it up with the progarchives search feature. I dislike the billionaire class. In 2020, I voted for Barbara Stone.  When I was young, I was a democrat. But now, the democrats take more money from the billionaire class than the GOP. So I vote for the People's Party. The People Party promise to not take any money from the Billionaire class. The final People's Party platform will be voted on at the end of the year. 

Steve, if you are interested in NOT supporting Mega corporations/Billionaire class/Industrial Complex, I suggest you look into the People Party's website. 

https://peoplesparty.org/


I don't believe a word you say.


<p ="Msonormal">When someone doesn’t have a counter argument, they rely on
personal attacks in hope of discrediting any opposing information.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Steve uses this tactic all the time and it
only demonstrates his weak position.<o:p></o:p>


My position is quite clear. The two of you talk out of your ass and I call you on it.

Edited by SteveG - September 14 2021 at 12:25
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so nice of you to prove my point
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Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

so nice of you to prove my point
What's left to say? You blab about Covid vaccine misinformation, and 4 years ago Cindy raved about Trump and now denies it. You two are full of it, as I've pointed out on numerous occasions.

Edited by SteveG - September 14 2021 at 13:37
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Biden contradicts himself. Which is it?
1.  The vaccine works, ergo, fully vaccinate people don't need to worry about unvaccinated folks. 
2. Or, the vaccine does not work, therefore it does not matter if you are vaccinated... or not unvaccinated.


This is wrong for two reasons:
1. It's not a question of the vaccine working 100% perfectly or not at all: some people aren't as affected by it as others and some still have a higher risk of being hospitalized than others if they catch it.
2. Even if the vaccine did work perfectly in all cases, as long as enough people are left unvaccinated, hospitals and intensive care units remain at a risk of becoming overburdened by Covid patients and having their ability to provide adequate care to others impaired.

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

In Biden's speech, he said, "We've been patient. But our patience is wearing thin. Their refusal has cost all of us!" 

It's not just the medical costs he's referring to but also the cost of society still needing to be under lockdown, as opposed to a country like Denmark which is poised to relieve all lockdown measures because the vaccination rate is at such a level that the virus is no longer deemed able to pose a national threat. A core tenet of liberalism is a commitment to freedom as long as one doesn't infringe the freedom of others, and the freedoms of vaccinated people are hindered by the risk that their unvaccinated peers pose to society.

Granted, I don't know if an outright vaccine mandate is really the best or even the fairest solution; my preference goes out to the French "pass sanitaire" system where people aren't allowed to enter public places unless they've been vaccinated, have tested negatively or have recovered from the virus within the past 6 months (the Netherlands are set to introduce a similar system soon and I for one welcome it). Regardless, I believe that governments are in their right to implement some sort of coercive measure to this end if they are to protect their own citizens. Your mafia accusation is completely ridiculous; as a member of society, one has both rights and duties. Would you call someone a mafia don for forcing citizens to pay taxes? Or wear seatbelts? Why don't you speak with a political dissident from Belarus before calling someone a dictator?
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Points: 1396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 16:07
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

so nice of you to prove my point
What's left to say? You blab about Covid vaccine misinformation, and 4 years ago Cindy raved about Trump and now denies it. You two are full of it, as I've pointed out on numerous occasions.

Still proving my point eloquently..

Besides, I didn’t say anything about any covid vaccine misinformation in this entire thread.  And even if I did, challenge the information.  Attacking the person doesn’t discredit what they say; it only makes your position look weak.

Most of my discussion was about Joe Biden’s speech.  If his coercive control works, tens of millions of lives may be ruined.



Edited by CosmicVibration - September 14 2021 at 16:08
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Points: 20604 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 16:32
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

so nice of you to prove my point
What's left to say? You blab about Covid vaccine misinformation, and 4 years ago Cindy raved about Trump and now denies it. You two are full of it, as I've pointed out on numerous occasions.



<p ="msonormal"="">Still proving my point eloquently..



<p ="msonormal"="">Besides, I didn’t say anything about any covid vaccine misinformation
in this entire thread.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>And even if I did,
challenge the information.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Attacking the
person doesn’t discredit what they say; it only makes your position look weak.



<p ="msonormal"="">Most of my discussion was about Joe Biden’s speech. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If his coercive control works, tens of
millions of lives may be ruined.



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And you're still proving my point. I did not say that you are full of it in regards to this thread, but after listening to you talk utter nonsense in the Covid thread and continue your arguing even after every half brained argument of yours was proven to be false and misleading, it is beyond my ability to take anything you say seriously. A tree is known by it's fruit and yours is rotten.

Edited by SteveG - September 14 2021 at 16:42
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PS: Even reprinting your post revealed nonsense. How appropriate.
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[/QUOTE]

Good, I'm glad you did contact your representative. I take back my comment about this. Did you get an adequate reply?

My congressman only sends out blanket replies and I have not voted for him, nor will I ever. My one senator does support these things. My other senator doesn't and also sends out blanket replies. He's retiring, so I'm hoping we can vote in a better person to take his place.

I think we're both in agreement on Syria and, like you, I don't want any wars. This is something I hope Biden changes course on. The elephant in the room with the Middle East has always been petroleum. But soon I suspect the bigger elephant will be climate change. Whether that changes U.S. policies remains to be seen. 
[/QUOTE]

 

My representative sent me a blanket reply. That's what I expected. That said,  I figure her staff keeps track of how many of her constituents are on each side of an issue. I was hoping a majority of voters felt like I did. 

 I called the Whitehouse opinion line when Trump shot a missile at that Syrian runway. The phone was busy. It took me a half hour get past the busy signal and leave an angry message.  A bunch of people were upset, because Trump promised not to start or escalate a war. 


Edited by omphaloskepsis - September 14 2021 at 18:41
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Points: 6343 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2021 at 18:35
Originally posted by Mirakaze Mirakaze wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Biden contradicts himself. Which is it?
1.  The vaccine works, ergo, fully vaccinate people don't need to worry about unvaccinated folks. 
2. Or, the vaccine does not work, therefore it does not matter if you are vaccinated... or not unvaccinated.


This is wrong for two reasons:
1. It's not a question of the vaccine working 100% perfectly or not at all: some people aren't as affected by it as others and some still have a higher risk of being hospitalized than others if they catch it.


I agree it's not a question of the vaccine working 100%.  Where did I say that? I did not say that.  You just restated what I said that Biden said, in a slightly different from. Higher risk of hospitalization?  Biden quantified it. According to Biden, a 1 in 160,000 risk of hospitalization. Is that a good reason to lockdown the country?  Biden has bungled almost everything he's touched. We got major inflation, immigration problems. (Biden's administration lost track of thousands of immigrant children. Many sold into human trafficking.) Biden blew the Afghan withdrawal. Biden claimed he killed the ISIS bombers, but that was a lie. Biden ordered the bombing that blew apart an Aid Worker Volunteer and children. That's worse than what a mafia don would do. Maybe I shouldn't have compared Biden to a Mafia Don?
https://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2021/09/war-criminal-biden-blows-up-children-family-biden-admin-blew-up-aid-worker-families-with-no-terror-ties-in-latest-democrat-horror-3598205.html



 Furthermore, each Covid death had an average of three comorbidities. Why don't we talk about that?  Most the comorbidities are caused by obesity. Why don't we talk about obesity?  Should Biden mandate diets or lap band surgery for obese people? Might save more lives than seatbelts? I'd wager that stopping obesity would save more lives than covid vaccinations.  Unless you are over 65 and obese, the odds of you dying from covid are very low. I live in a metroplex of over two million people. Nobody under 28 has died of Covid in my area. Not one death.
 
   A HUGE POINT- Biden does not have the legal right to mandate vaccines. Vaccine mandates are under the State Domain.  Maybe they do things different in the Netherlands? That's cool. But, that is not the way we do things in the USA. Biden threatened governors of states who refused to cooperate with his vaccine mandate. Biden said he would use his power to get the governors Out Of The Way. Over half the states oppose Biden's Vaccine Mandate. Majority of Americans oppose Biden's mandate.

 https://conventionofstates.com/news/poll-americans-say-no-to-biden-s-covid-19-mandate
 

2. Even if the vaccine did work perfectly in all cases, as long as enough people are left unvaccinated, hospitals and intensive care units remain at a risk of becoming overburdened by Covid patients and having their ability to provide adequate care to others impaired.

The stories you have been hearing are false. 
1. ICU's are not overburdened. First off, the only hospital ICU's that the government counts are "County Hospitals".  County hospitals are always crowded because that where the poor people go to get free heath care in America. All other hospitals are NOT counted and they are not overburdened because of covid.  I'm a professional RN (Registered Nurse). Here's what's happening.  A boy breaks his leg.  He goes to the hospital. He tests positive for Covid-19.  The hospital counts him as a Covid patient, even if he is asymptomatic. Why would a hospital do such a thing? Because the federal government pays the hospital thousands of dollars per covid patient.  More if they put the patient on a ventilator. 

What else is happening? Because of forced vaccinations, Nurses everywhere are quitting or getting fired. Biden's vaccination mandate is stressing the healthcare system more than Covid. Anti-Covid-Vaccination Nurses in Houston were fired. Check out this hospital story- Where they closed the entire Maternity Ward because Anti-Covid-Vaccination nurses quit in masse. 

https://focuswashington.com/2021/09/13/ny-hospital-to-close-maternity-ward-after-jab-mandate-caused-staff-resignations/

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

In Biden's speech, he said, "We've been patient. But our patience is wearing thin. Their refusal has cost all of us!" 

It's not just the medical costs he's referring to but also the cost of society still needing to be under lockdown, as opposed to a country like Denmark which is poised to relieve all lockdown measures because the vaccination rate is at such a level that the virus is no longer deemed able to pose a national threat. A core tenet of liberalism is a commitment to freedom as long as one doesn't infringe the freedom of others, and the freedoms of vaccinated people are hindered by the risk that their unvaccinated peers pose to society.

Granted, I don't know if an outright vaccine mandate is really the best or even the fairest solution; my preference goes out to the French "pass sanitaire" system where people aren't allowed to enter public places unless they've been vaccinated, have tested negatively or have recovered from the virus within the past 6 months (the Netherlands are set to introduce a similar system soon and I for one welcome it). Regardless, I believe that governments are in their right to implement some sort of coercive measure to this end if they are to protect their own citizens. Your mafia accusation is completely ridiculous; as a member of society, one has both rights and duties. Would you call someone a mafia don for forcing citizens to pay taxes? Or wear seatbelts? Why don't you speak with a political dissident from Belarus before calling someone a dictator?


If it's true, as Biden says, only 1 in 160,000 vaccinated people will be hospitalized...Why must America suffer a lockdown? The vaccinated people are safe.  Let the unvaccinated folks take the risk. The unvaccinated are OK with the risk.  We do not stop Obese people from eating. We let them risk their life. That's life. Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

How will the vaccinated feel when they find out that an endless stream of booster jabs will be required? How will they feel when their vaccination subscription expires every six months or so? Many will suffer through painful immune system side effects. Certainly more than 1 in 160,000.  As an undergraduate, I took immunobiology. It's no surprise that the second jab causes more side effects than the first jab. Imagine the third, forth, fifth ad infinitum... Same thing happens to folks who are allergic to bee stings. The first bee sting makes them sick. A year later?  They're stung again and suddenly their throat is swelling in an anaphylactic shock reaction. Some die.  Who is looking forward to booster shots? 

Not Congress and their staff. Congress is exempt from Biden's vaccine mandate. Congress and their staffs don't have to take Covid vaccines. Congress just takes millions of dollars from the Big Pharma Companies that produce the vaccines. Companies like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, and Moderna. It's good work if you can get it. 

Not illegal aliens. More than a million illegal aliens have crossed the border since Biden took office.  Perhaps the Covid virus can't infect illegal aliens? Seriously, if Biden really cared about stopping Covid with a vaccine mandate...how come Congress and illegal aliens are exempt?  I really would like to know the answer. Meanwhile here come the Booster Jabs! 

https://www.aol.com/covid-19-booster-jabs-millions-115318086.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9zZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAK5TGkqxkLEUDi6iZU7nvrsEghYIbU3AXwl6BIRtTHjsR58QAV92Q3EYSiraCABMVY0ojxud-14XaqH7jp5HK3NqKTVl9un03xQ04TXKip2GehOnZEaS99eyFPx_Ys504wpnpXtC7LjgtdFAa72c547St9yYlm8qzagBNUDSnY6M


Edited by omphaloskepsis - September 15 2021 at 03:15
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