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Interactive poll: All you do to me is talk talk
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Poll Question: Vote for the three best, not your own!
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [4.26%]
2 [4.26%]
5 [10.64%]
4 [8.51%]
6 [12.77%]
1 [2.13%]
5 [10.64%]
2 [4.26%]
4 [8.51%]
2 [4.26%]
1 [2.13%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [2.13%]
2 [4.26%]
1 [2.13%]
1 [2.13%]
5 [10.64%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [6.38%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Another very hard poll with lots of good stuff.
I'll not vote for those I knew already, that's Pierrot Lunaire, The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, and Boy Named Sue (I'd probably pick Gil Scott-Heron out of those.)
I'll not vote for the long ones either, Prefab Sprout, Robin Williamson, and Cradle of Filth, they all have something and I may at some point get into those more (to be honest, rather not into the one with the cookie monster vocals); there's something subtle about the more peaceful two I couldn't get to the bottom of when doing the listening for this much of which has to be while doing other things.
Then it already becomes difficult. Hot Rod Lincoln is not so much my cup of tea. With Drop Nineteens we already get quite close to the kind of stuff I like, this particular song is fine but doesn't qualify as outstanding. And there we are. Still nine things to vote for, OK eight excluding my own submission. Eight seriously good things.

8) 2Nu - cool stuff, maybe too little going on in the music.
7) Erik Truffaz - I started listening with this and thought, this is great, I'll probably vote for it. But no, too much good stuff.
6) Matthew Trapnell - Very good and special although there's the odd idea in it that doesn't resonate that much.
5) Blondie - very strong and impressive stuff; I'm not quite sure whether I had heard it at the time but don't remember it. Ultimately not in the top three for the rather formalist reason that much of its quality comes from the part where there is no spoken word.
4) Masters of Reality - T.U.S.A. - genius GInger Baker's drums and voice would have almost lifted this into the top 3, very very tight, but...

3) Jeg skulle have været taxachauffør - finally I vote for something in Danish... children's content, eh? So charming! Seems I like Danish language more spoken than sung.
2) Gilad Atzmon - epic, even if just short of 6 minutes! Top notch musicality.
1) Soul Coughing - now that's my kind of music. This needs to be in my collection a.s.a.p.
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

to be honest, rather not into the one with the cookie monster vocals


Lol. Dani Filth's vocals were likened to the voice of the Turkish dubbed "duck" (check out the video below, after the 17th sesond) once. TBH, I'm somewhere in-between to find his vocals cool and ridiculous. I tend to like most of them, though.
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The Anders View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

3) Jeg skulle have været taxachauffør - finally I vote for something in Danish... children's content, eh? So charming! Seems I like Danish language more spoken than sung.


Thanks a lot for the vote Smile

As for the clip being marked as 'for children', I don't think it makes much sense. Maybe it was marked as such by default because of the words "When I grow up, I will be a taxi driver". That's the only reasonable explanation I can think of. But it should be obvious that the line isn't meant to be taken literally - there's a lot of humour in the lyrics.
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The Anders View Drop Down
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Robin Williamson - Five Denials On Merlin's Grave
It starts with only the speaking voice, but some folk instruments set in after some time: harp, tin whistle and violin. I can not really relate to the fairy tale universe, but it is not without humour, and at times the wording is quite absurd.

Johnny Cash - A Boy Named Sue
I know this one too well to vote for it. It’s a very nice track of course, but you probably have to be more into American folklore to really get it.

Cradle of Filth - Bathory Aria
After a short section with medieval chanting, the music quickly turns into metal, complete with some (at least for me) rather annoying growl. Not my taste at all I’m afraid. When I do like metal, it is usually more melodic, or it goes a bit beyond the genre clichés.

2NU - This Is Ponderous
Another one with a funky beat (and typical funk licks on the electric guitar). Judging by the gated drums, it’s from the 80’s. Not quite outstanding enough to be a contender.

Drop NIneteens - KIck the Tragedy
This one is quite noisy with some dissonant and distorted guitars dominating the soundscape. It goes on like that for quite a while, but with small variations, repeating the same two chords over and over again. We have to wait until 5:29 before a speaking voice comes in, along with a change of mood. Then the instrumental section reappears, and the track fades out.

Bomb the Bass (Kruder & Dorfmeister remix) - Bug Powder Dust
The track starts with what sounds like a film soundtrack. Then it turns into some rather old-school rap. I’m not generally a big rap fan, but I like quite a few of the musical elements. It’s a bit too monotonous for me though.

Blondie – Europa
I mostly know Blondie for the Parallel Lines album. Judging by the oppulent symphonic arrangement, it doesn’t even sound like the same band. There’s a speaking voice only towards the end, and you should probably hear the album as a whole to fully appreciate the track.

Soul Coughing - Screenwriter's Blues
It starts very dissonant, but there is a sunden change of mood and tempo after 1,5 minute. The speaking voices are rather annoying to me. Not something that really ressonates with me, but on a solely musical level I enjoy quite a lot of elements in it.


Edited by The Anders - August 27 2021 at 09:36
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

Cradle of Filth - Bathory Aria
After a short section with medieval chanting, the music quickly turns into metal, complete with some (at least for me) rather annoying growl. Not my taste at all I’m afraid. When I do like metal, it is usually more melodic, or it goes a bit beyond the genre clichés.

Sorry but Cradle Filth is far from being generic, and in fact one of the most original metal bands of the '90s. They are also extremely melodic. Annoyance is OK. I wouldn't expect it to be different. LOL
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The Anders View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

Cradle of Filth - Bathory Aria
After a short section with medieval chanting, the music quickly turns into metal, complete with some (at least for me) rather annoying growl. Not my taste at all I’m afraid. When I do like metal, it is usually more melodic, or it goes a bit beyond the genre clichés.

Sorry but Cradle Filth is far from being generic, and in fact one of the most original metal bands of the '90s. They are also extremely melodic. Annoyance is OK. I wouldn't expect it to be different. LOL


Well, since I didn't know the band at all, I could only go by that particular track. Maybe I should check out some of their more melodic stuff Smile
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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^ The song I nominated is also extremely melodic, and far from being a cliché. I think you wouldn't like the rest of their stuff, either.
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The Anders View Drop Down
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Points: 3529 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2021 at 09:52
I had another listen to the track.

Now, to be melodic in my world, it has got to have a melody (line of diatonic notes) that is sung. But the singer - or growler - isn't singing any tonal notes, so how can it be melodic?
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Points: 4506 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2021 at 09:54
^ That is "melodic singing". It is only ONE aspect of being melodious. You should've stated that you don't like non-melodic vocals, not music. Cradle of Filth make melodic music, actually they are one of the most melodious bands out there. Especially their earlier stuff is swarmed with abundant melodies.

Edited by Shadowyzard - August 27 2021 at 10:10
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The Anders View Drop Down
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Points: 3529 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2021 at 10:04
OK then, melodic guitar lines...

I don't dislike non-melodic singing. I really enjoy sprechgesang for instance, and I enjoy some rap too. It's more the distorted growl that doesn't appeal to me.

I count singing as music too, so melodic singing is also melodic music.

Btw. Your comment seems a bit bitter. I wasn't trying to upset you or anything. We all listen differently.


Edited by The Anders - August 27 2021 at 10:12
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

OK then, melodic guitar lines...

I don't dislike non-melodic singing. I really enjoy sprechgesang for instance, and I enjoy some rap too. It's more the distorted growl that doesn't appeal to me.


Melodic guitar lines, bass lines, keys, synths, sopranos... only melodic front vocals are missing. "Then", you shouldn't deem instrumental music as "melodic" either. Same logic applies to that.

Also, cliché is a big word that should be used with caution.

Not that I'm too serious or anything, but for me your remark was... false.

Edited by Shadowyzard - August 27 2021 at 10:19
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

Btw. Your comment seems a bit bitter. I wasn't trying to upset you or anything. We all listen differently.


I can be blunt sometimes, sorry if I was offensive. Smile
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Had another listen to the tracks of my short-list and made up my mind (also by excluding the known ones):

1. Soul Coughing - Screenwriter's Blues
2. Dan Turèll & Halfdan E - Jeg skulle have været taxachauffør
3. Masters of Reality - T.U.S. A.

Quite in a struggle to get on the podium: Erik Truffaz & Nya and Gilad Atzmon. These five were all great discoveries!

This turned out to be a very fine poll theme; thanks Christian and all the contributors!

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The Anders View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:


Melodic guitar lines, bass lines, keys, synths, sopranos... only melodic vocals are missing. "Then", you shouldn't deem instrumental music as "melodic" either. Same logic applies to that.

Also, cliché is a big word that should be used with caution.


Well, it is obvious that instrumental music can be melodic too. I love Mozart, and a lot of his music is very melodic indeed. I just think that whenever there's a singing voice present in the music, I would tend to look more to that voice for melodies rather than the instruments. But that's just me, and for other people it may be different. But I can only speak for myself.

As for the cliché thing, it wasn't meant as negatively as you might have perceived it. They are not always a bad thing. All kinds of music have their own clichés, even avant-garde music, and very often they are so obvious that we don't even think about them.

I think it is easier to perceive music as cliched if it is in a style that doesn't resonate so well with you, whereas if you are more into that particular genre, then you may be more able to spot the nuances. For me, as a non-metal fan, an aspect such as growl counts as a genre cliché in itself, because it is one of the elements I usually connect with metal. I have also heard quite a few other metal songs that begins in a similar vein, with medieval style of singing, so for me it's very much the same story. Again, metal fans might perceive it differently.


Edited by The Anders - August 27 2021 at 10:36
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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^ Anders.... The word "cliché" demands some serious knowledge to utter, upon the thing you're talking about. If you "generalize" all the non-melodic vocals, I can do it for melodic singing too. This is not a proper approach. I think the dominance of Dani's non-melodic vocals annoyed you, and you couldn't focus on the "melodic" nature of CoF's music. But Cradle of Filth are, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a very melodic band. Even in the level of Iron Maiden, plus with more diverse melodies.

Anyway, we both made ourselves clear, I think. Thanks for the discussion, your understanding; and sorry for my bluntness.

Edited by Shadowyzard - August 27 2021 at 10:43
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The Anders View Drop Down
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^ I think you may be taking my comments a little too seriously, anyway sorry if it upset you.

My issue with his singing was not the fact that it is non-melodic, it is more the tone of it. Also, I must stress that I love a lot of music that isn't melodic at all.
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If Cradle of Filth seems cliché to various people, it may be partially because it is such an influential band.

When I think of Cradle of Filth, I think of this scene from the IT Crowd:
Duos for fave acts
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

^ I think you may be taking my comments a little too seriously, anyway sorry if it upset you.

My issue with his singing was not the fact that it is non-melodic, it is more the tone of it. Also, I must stress that I love a lot of music that isn't melodic at all.


I meant you generalise shriek, scream, growl type of vocals and call it cliche. I said that I can do the same thing for melodic singing too. I wouldn't though. There are far more striking differences than nuances in all these. Listen to the early In Flames and Obituary. There are worlds of differences in their non-melodic extreme vocals, for instance.

You can see CoF's music non-melodic (or relatively less-melodic than the standard metal outputs), but sorry. You're wrong. Big smile

I never was upset because of the fact that you didn't like Cof, you don't like extreme vocals etc. But, I may get upset if we discuss this longer. Tongue

Edited by Shadowyzard - August 27 2021 at 11:11
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Shadowyzard View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

If Cradle of Filth seems cliché to various people, it may be partially because it is such an influential band.

When I think of Cradle of Filth, I think of this scene from the IT Crowd:



Hilarious! LOL

The guy looks like the frontman of the Swedish metal band called Avatar.
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The Anders View Drop Down
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Points: 3529 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2021 at 11:18
Shadowyzard I just think we perceive the word cliché differently. It's relative. You make it sound like I tried to pass some sort of definite judgment. I did not, I just spoke from the point of view of my own experience. It all depends on the ears that are listening, and the way you listen. What seems like a cliché to one person is not to another person.


Edited by The Anders - August 27 2021 at 11:41
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