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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: August 19 2021 at 15:22

The writing is on the wall. President Biden will NOT last out his term. That's my prediction.

My last prediction? If America withdrew from Afghanistan, the country would fall to Taliban faster than you could say, "lickety-split".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing Biden for withdrawing from Afghanistan. Ending the Afghanistan War will be the BEST thing that Biden will do in his Presidency. As painful as withdraw was...beginning wars is MUCH worse.

The Democrat elite and media are tired of protecting Biden. They know Biden's senility grows worse weekly. Plans have been made. Important democrats are distancing themselves from Biden. Don't expect Kamala Harris to rush to Biden's rescue.

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Posted: August 19 2021 at 18:13

^ At least the bedwetting liberal media is being fair & balanced in their coverage of him, they have been for awhile now. Probably better that way, as it would soon become too big a love-fest even for us progressives.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

SteveG

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Posted: August 20 2021 at 04:06

omphaloskepsis wrote:

The writing is on the wall. President Biden will NOT last out his term. That's my prediction.

My last prediction? If America withdrew from Afghanistan, the country would fall to Taliban faster than you could say, "lickety-split".

You won't criticize Biden for pulling out of Afghanistan because it was enacted, last year, by Trump. You Repubs are so predictable. If this was enacted solely by Biden, you and Fox News would be screaming bloody murder. I, on the other hand, think it was a monumental mistake. But it's not the end of world. And certainly nowhere as bad as Trump trying to take over the Capital, with a violent coup, in a bid to overturn a legal democratic process. Now, here's my prediction: the Trump base will be so depleted by Covid illnesses and deaths (due to not being vaccinated) that their votes will be way down and Biden will get another 4 years, if he actually decides runs again.

Edited by SteveG - August 20 2021 at 06:19

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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: August 20 2021 at 13:22

SteveG wrote:

omphaloskepsis wrote:

The writing is on the wall. President Biden will NOT last out his term. That's my prediction.

My last prediction? If America withdrew from Afghanistan, the country would fall to Taliban faster than you could say, "lickety-split".

The reason I don't criticize Biden for pulling out of Afghanistan is because I'm anti-war. Since the beginning of this thread I've stressed over a dozen times- that I'm anti-war. I don't care which president pulls America out of wars.

However, I can criticize the Biden administration for the way they pulled out of Afghanistan. The following complaints are a but a few of the issues I have with the way Biden pulled out of Afghanistan:

1. Biden moved the date of Withdraw from May 1, 2021 to September 11, 2021. This was viewed as a betrayal by the Taliban and Afghan people. The deal was BROKE. The Taliban was freed from abiding by the deal.

2. After Biden broke the deal, he could have used the extra Months to remove America civilians and equipment. But Biden did not do that.

3. America has 44 four star generals. Not a single one of America's four star generals was on the Ground in Afghanistan, leading the troop withdrawal. Can you even name the American military chief, on the ground, during the Afghanistan withdrawal? What's his name?

4. Unannounced, on July 2, 2021, in the middle of the night, the America abandoned their last major military airbase in Bagram. America left everything from weapons to military trucks, tanks, computers, and other hi tech equipment. Beginning the next day, the Taliban looted the base.

5. Biden's withdrawal was done completely backwards.

A) First you evacuat all American civilian personnel and shred records of Afghans friendly to Americans. So they won't get beheaded. Not to mention the ransoms America may have to pay for their own citizens.

B) Next you move all military equipment out of Afghanistan.

C) Once you got everything off the ground, you destroy anything that you don't want your enemy to possess, and finally you evacuate your military personal.

As huge a mess as the Afghan withdrawal was, I still believe that Biden was right to pull out. America should have never attacked Afghanistan.

Edited by omphaloskepsis - August 20 2021 at 13:26

SteveG

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Posted: August 20 2021 at 14:08

omphaloskepsis wrote:

SteveG wrote:

omphaloskepsis wrote:

The writing is on the wall. President Biden will NOT last out his term. That's my prediction.

My last prediction? If America withdrew from Afghanistan, the country would fall to Taliban faster than you could say, "lickety-split".

2. After Biden broke the deal, he could have used the extra Months to remove America civilians and equipment. But Biden did not do that.

5. Biden's withdrawal was done completely backwards.

B) Next you move all military equipment out of Afghanistan.

C) Once you got everything off the ground, you destroy anything that you don't want your enemy to possess, and finally you evacuate your military personal.

As huge a mess as the Afghan withdrawal was, I still believe that Biden was right to pull out. America should have never attacked Afghanistan.

I'll send your post to Joe. He can probably use a laugh right now.

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Sean Trane View Drop Down

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Posted: August 22 2021 at 06:14

I'd have put this in the Crowd Madness thread if it wasn't still temporarily closed

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

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Posted: August 22 2021 at 07:21

Shadowyzard View Drop Down

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Posted: August 22 2021 at 07:50

Sean Trane wrote:

I'd have put this in the Crowd Madness thread if it wasn't still temporarily closed

Epic! (pun intended)

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: August 22 2021 at 20:12

FBI confirms there was no insurrection on Jan. 6th.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fbi-confirms-there-was-no-insurrection-on-jan-6/ar-AANxOuQ

The Cambridge Dictionary defines “insurrection” as: “an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their

By that definition, there was no “insurrection” at the United States Capitol on Jan. 6, according to the FBI. Reuters reports:

The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.
"Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases," said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. "Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages."

This report is a devastating blow to President Joe Biden and Democrats, who have attempted to make the existence of an “insurrection” on Jan. 6 a key issue in the 2022 midterm elections. Reuters does note that some “cells of protesters,” including members of the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, did coordinate to “break into the Capitol,” but the FBI found “no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside.”

None of this excuses the violent riot that happened on Jan. 6. The FBI has arrested 570 rioters and each and every one of them should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

But that is what the event was: a riot, just like so many other riots. Trying to politicize it and turn it into something it wasn't won’t make the Capitol any safer.

Other articles- there are many more.

https://www.salon.com/2021/08/20/fbi-finds-little-evidence-jan-6-insurrection-was-organized-attack-report/

https://storywarrant.com/2021/08/21/it-was-all-a-lie-fbi-now-says-no-proof-jan-6th-capitol-riot-was-pre-planned-attack/

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fbi-no-evidence-jan-6-riot-organized-trump-or-others

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/

Edited by omphaloskepsis - August 23 2021 at 06:15

Ronstein

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Posted: August 23 2021 at 02:46

"according to four current and former law enforcement officials."

Says it all right there. As your man was fond of saying "FAKE NEWS!!!"

suitkees

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Posted: August 23 2021 at 03:46

@omphaloskepsis: You clearly put a lot of energy in playing down what happened on Jan. 6 at the Capitol, and now trying to easy your mind by finding comfort in semantics. The difference between "riot" and "insurrection" may probably only be relevant for prosecutors and lawyers in order to determine the degree of punishment the clodhoppers that have stormed The Capitol will receive. It doesn't change anything about the facts: Hundreds of people, instigated by the then outgoing President of the US of A, stormed the Capitol in order to halt a democratic process. Several people got killed and injured because of it.

BTW, I looked at the links you gave. Not the articles, because I suppose they will just tell the same (giving four links to a same story doesn't make the story more important!), but more to look where they stand... (these are just very subjective first impressions...):

MSN is just aggregating news from other outlets; this one comes from the Washington Examiner, stamped as conservative and apparently (see Wikipedia) rapidly creating a reputation for itself as creator of fake news.

Regarding The Blaze and Story Warrant (a title like this should immediately raise red flags...) they are clearly very tendentious in their titles and firmly grounded in Trumpish territories.

These are not news organizations but opinion organizations!

Now, Salon looks much more balanced in what they bring forward and how they bring it forward. They even have a section dedicated to Science & Health and one to Culture (although this one is talking more about "People" than about "Culture"). I stumbled upon a paper written by Robert Reich... Well, if they even publish things by him, they're probably "radical left".

So, from Salon, let me link to something you should read (and then disagree with, of course...):

The Media bias that no one is talking about. Happy reading.

Edited by suitkees - August 23 2021 at 03:48

The razamataz is a pain in the bum

SteveG

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Posted: August 23 2021 at 04:37

omphaloskepsis wrote:

FBI confirms there was no insurrection on Jan. 6th.

Blah blah blah blah...

The FBI did not say that there was no insurrection. They said that there was no preplanned insurrection plot between right wing radical organizations like the Proud Boys and other white supremist organizations. A spontaneous act of murder has the same effect as a premeditated act of murder, just as a spontaneous violent uprising has the same effect as a premediated violent uprising. Trump, Rudi, Trump's son and other right wing political hacks instigated the January 6th storming of the Capital in order to overturn the 2020 presidential election. They are traitors to the country and the Constitution and will forever be branded as such. No manipulation of the FBI findings in regards to premeditation between the radical political groups, by right wing apologists, will ever change that fact.

Edited by SteveG - August 23 2021 at 06:02

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rogerthat

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Posted: August 24 2021 at 00:59

I am going to give an outsider's perspective here on what has gone on in Afghanistan.

There is a false choice being promoted by many, including Biden himself, between only two options: staying and withdrawing. Some of the sought-after 'balanced' pundits like Krystal and Sagar have also fallen for this.

Let's be clear. If I criticize Biden, it does not mean I am opposed to withdrawal itself.

It is that the sequence was all wrong. All American civilians as well as Afghan allies in the operation should have been evacuated before withdrawing the troops. Yes, that means more 'migrants' but these 'migrants' supported USA in the Afghan operation so to pretend that accommodating a few thousand of them in the US would be catastrophic for the economy and employment is extremely disingenuous.

Yes, it is the narrative that, predictably, Fox is running on and it seems to me that this weighed heavily on Biden and he made the political calculation to let some people high and dry in Afghanistan. He went through with the withdrawal knowing full well that it was going to be chaotic because he was afraid of how to manage the political narrative.

In short, America First has now been established to be a bipartisan imperative. In other words, that Trump was only a symptom and not the disease.

From the outsider's perspective, this is a bitter lesson for allies to always watch out for their own and listen to their own intelligence sources and not rely on the US. I hope our own External Affairs Minister, an ardent Anglophile I am sure from the way he loves to hold forth in English, has learnt his lesson too (he has already said Indian and US interests diverge on Afghanistan...well, duh, good you learnt something we coulda told you without being employed in the diplomacy service).

It may surprise people to read this given how much I have participated in this thread but from the Indian perspective, I have always been an advocate of India maintaining better relations with China as a priority. If we don't have friends in the neighbourhood, far away friends a couple of oceans away are not going to be of much help.

And Biden has helped underscore that point and vindicate my stance (an extremely unpopular one given our own govt too loves to drum up Sinophobia to cover up their incompetence and failures). Not just by standing firm on the withdrawal even after it got completely out of control. But by making assurances in July that were proven utterly untrue in very short order. And, internationally, this does not play as a one-time aberration (which was the theory offered in the case of Trump) but as the latest in a series of mistakes, mistakes that seem to arrive at much shorter intervals in the 21st century as overconfidence and a reluctance to understand local nuances haunt recent American operations.

Lastly, I will deal with a point that ought to concern the right wing audience preoccupied with the cost savings from the withdrawal. The Pentagon has just said they have now idea what military assets the Taliban may have got hold of and have no way of recovering it now.

So stop drumming up the notion that even the original mission succeeded. No! The disorderly withdrawal had poured water on all efforts made over the past 20 years. Taliban have been gifted with weapons they can use, first to defeat Ahmad Masood (the son of Ahmed Shah Masood) and the Northern Alliance in the Panjshir valley and then...God knows, maybe unleash a fresh war of terror.

Edited by rogerthat - August 24 2021 at 01:01

SteveG

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Posted: August 24 2021 at 04:07

I don't believe that anyone with any intelligence would argue against the fact that the withdrawal was and is a disaster. The problem arose because all US intelligence, including those in the military, felt that the Afghan military was sufficient enough to hold off the Taliban from capturing Kabul for at least the amount of time it would take to evacuate US citizens, and Afghan nationals who supported the US government, after US troops departed the country. To admit so publicly would be a worse embarrassment to the US than the current situation. Trump spent a good amount of time and energy deriding US intelligence over his 4 years in office and Biden and co. want to reverse that trend, so they stay silent on the issue. Was Trump right? Perhaps. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Edited by SteveG - August 24 2021 at 04:41

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rogerthat

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Posted: August 24 2021 at 04:40

SteveG wrote:

I don't believe that anyone with any intelligence would argue against the fact that the withdrawal was and is a disaster. The problem arose because all US intelligence, including those in the military, felt that the Afgan military was sufficient enough to hold off the Taliban from capturing Kabul for at least the amount of time it would take to evacuate US citizens, and Afgan nationals who supported the US government, after US troops departed the country. To admit so publicly would be a worse embarrassment to the US than the current situation. Trump spent a good amount of time and energy deriding US intelligence over his 4 years in office and Biden and co. want to reverse that trend, so they stay silent on the issue. Was Trump right? Perhaps. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

This is something I couldn't understand too - that the Afghan govt was not involved in the talks with Taliban but the Afghan army was expected to defend the country, or at least Kabul, against the Taliban. A lot of the problems began with what was essentially a bad deal made between the US and the Taliban. Predictably enough, arrangements had already been made between the Taliban and the Afghan army so the former took over the country with minimum resistance.

Yes, my theory is the US intelligence somewhat sabotaged the withdrawal hoping to use that as a pretext to keep American troops in there longer and when Biden put his foot down, pandemonium broke out. I don't think it is all bad long term that it happened this way because this will make it harder for the CIA to get a buy in for joint wild goose hunting missions in future. In essence, Biden has dealt a big blow to the deep state.

But the damage this will also do to the US' soft power is not, I think, being factored in as of now. Also, strategically, this now lets China get a pipeline from Iran through Af-Pak to China. The pipeline that India wanted and which is now a mere pipe dream. As I said in the above post, we are fools too for not practicing realpolitik and not understanding that 'noble intentions' count for nought in geopolitics. India has helped Iran and Afgh a lot over the last several years and all of that is going to go down the drain because it could not reach some kind of settlement with Pak.

SteveG

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Posted: August 24 2021 at 04:44

Yes, there was a litany of errors related to the withdrawal. Much more will be come evident by the many Congressional investigations that will arise from this, in the future. They will go on even after old Joe is dead and buried, I dare say.

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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: August 24 2021 at 13:34

rogerthat wrote:

I am going to give an outsider's perspective here on what has gone on in Afghanistan.

Let's be clear. If I criticize Biden, it does not mean I am opposed to withdrawal itself.

In short, America First has now been established to be a bipartisan imperative. In other words, that Trump was only a symptom and not the disease.

I agree. Biden was right to pull troops out of Afghanistan. Everything about war is ugly...including endings. I find it interesting that the Media attacks Biden for ending a war. The media is making "Ending a War" look as ugly as possible. The media is making it clear that a President Should Never End a War. How unfortunate. As you know, you can call the White House comment line. I'm calling the White House tomorrow, and I'm gonna Praise Biden for ending the Afghanistan War.

Edited by omphaloskepsis - August 24 2021 at 16:28

SteveG

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Posted: August 24 2021 at 13:40

omphaloskepsis wrote:

I'm calling the White House tomorrow, and I'm gonna Praise Biden for ending the Afghanistan War.

Nice. Say hello to Joe for me.

Edited by SteveG - August 24 2021 at 13:40