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Mascodagama View Drop Down
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Points: 5111 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 15:27
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:


5-) I value decency and courtesy more than anything in artistry and criticism. I'm sure that I can live without discourteous and immodest critics and artists. The only exception is that one does a really groundbreaking thing. Only then, I can overlook an artist's or critic's character.
This thread must be giving you the screaming heebie-jeebies.
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^ Honestly, I also can be an a****le sometimes. So, I'm not blaming anyone without self-reflection. Big smile
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Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

I want to say something without insulting anyone here, although someone always deserves it.

1-) Doug is not doing his actual job here. He prefers to spend some of his time this way. I figure he should be getting puny amounts of money out of this. Though, he got some real recognition, which should be motivating him and making him happy.

2-) Being a critic and an artist... This is a VERY complex topic. I can say that, both artists and critics lacking decency HATE each other, generally. Others can get offended by or offend each other, but only occasionally and not severely.

3-) Academical disciplines... I have differing views on this. Yet, I can say that THEY DESERVE RESPECT. They are rather infertile and rigid, but I think this is an issue like discussing democracy, and I support both.

4-) Self-declared artistry doesn't come to mean that one is an artist. One of my teachers during my M.A. education once said that, "One of the biggest tragedies in life is believing that you're an artist when you actually aren't." In all honesty, I'm not sure if there's an ultimate means to unerringly determine whether one is an artist or not. So, I just mention what my teacher said, without blindly backing it up.

5-) I value decency and courtesy more than anything in artistry and criticism. I'm sure that I can live without discourteous and immodest critics and artists. The only exception is that one does a really groundbreaking thing. Only then, I can overlook an artist's or critic's character.

I am highly insulted by each one of your points listed Angry. Planning to report you and sue you for everything you got.....watch out!!LOL
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Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

...
3-) Academical disciplines... I have differing views on this. Yet, I can say that THEY DESERVE RESPECT. They are rather infertile and rigid, but I think this is an issue like discussing democracy, and I support both.

4-) Self-declared artistry doesn't come to mean that one is an artist. One of my teachers during my M.A. education once said that, "One of the biggest tragedies in life is believing that you're an artist when you actually aren't." In all honesty, I'm not sure if there's an ultimate means to unerringly determine whether one is an artist or not. So, I just mention what my teacher said, without blindly backing it up.
...

Hi,

You probably used much better wording than I to say what I wanted. 

I had a problem with the "academic disciplines" at UCSB (even my own father was a bit of a snob!), and it stemmed from the idea/point that I wanted to do experimental theater (78-82) and at least one member (the Technical Director) would not allow it, or help. That said, I still did (directed) an original play (from the Theater Writing class no less!), one of my Father's plays for an International Evening of Theater that went very well, and a Michel de Ghelderode play ... which was a great success. The original play got a massive review from the well known reviewer from the newspaper, and gave me a nice pat on the back. This did not sit well with the Department, specially when their production of ________ was trashed senseless as poor theater.

I never gave up, and up to and including various psychic experiments with actors, it all worked out really well, and some folks wanted to work with me more, because I was getting some good results out of the actors. And I wanted at the time, to also do a homosexual Hamlet small piece which was immediately taken down by a professor, but was done a bit later in London!

I'm an artist in the sense that as a director and working with actors I could always get some results that were unexpected and worked well on the stage, and it was vastly different from the other two directors in the program with me. For example, I did a version for a final of TOSCA's 2nd act, as a film (just story boards) for the class by Peter Mark, now the emeritus at the Virginia Opera. His comment? You solved just about all the problems that opera has on the stage! My reply? Let's do it then! (Sadly no go! They had done TOSCA a couple of years earlier!)

I only claim my "art" from my experiences, not by something you can BUY ... and that is vastly different within a different form of art ... but art nonetheless!

In the end, I'm proud of what I did in theater, and how I stuck to my experimental thoughts, and the vastly underlying force was MUSIC, and it was what became "progressive music" and the experimental sets from "krautrock" that helped and guided me along the way ... they were my teachers! 

There is a strong connection here that is about "performance" and does not differ a whole lot, with the exception that popular music demands that it be rigid and formulaic, when we know that many art scenes around the world came about from a reaction to all the rigid rules and formulas. As an example, was Holger suggesting that all they wanted was to do something without western music ideals. This makes sense to me. Something that does not have a beginning middle and an end, so to speak, or worse, a Godard style "not necessarily in that order".

DD has this idea that mentioning notes and chords makes it look like he's well knowledgeable about music. He might be in his discipline, but when it comes to progressive music? He opts for the safe and much easier to work on, as requested by fans. It's still VERY GOOD mind you, but for "progressive music" to survive and be better known it needs more than its connection to "pop music". Remember that just about all great artists went against the grain ... not quite with it! That is the history of art, and what I did in theater, film and do in my writing.


Edited by moshkito - August 09 2021 at 18:52
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

DD has this idea that mentioning notes and chords makes it look like he's well knowledgeable about music. He might be in his discipline, but when it comes to progressive music? He opts for the safe and much easier to work on, as requested by fans. It's still VERY GOOD mind you, but for "progressive music" to survive and be better known it needs more than its connection to "pop music". Remember that just about all great artists went against the grain ... not quite with it! That is the history of art, and what I did in theater, film and do in my writing.
 

Dr. Doug Helvering certainly knows more about music than you do about typing run-on sentences regarding your failed career in amateur theatre. Here is his rather lengthy biography:


He's a professor of Music Theory. He's a Doctor of Musical Arts, has a Masters in Musical Theory, and a Bachelors in Composition/Theory. His compositions have been played at Carnegie Hall, and he has performed with the Westminster Choir under the direction of such maestros as Riccardo Muti (former conductor at La Scala and music director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra) and Sir Colin Davis (now deceased, was conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra).  

I would say your comment that "mentioning notes and chords makes it look like he's well knowledgeable about music" is even more absurd and asinine given that you're not really even a musician. I suggest you quit before you embarrass yourself further. 


Edited by The Dark Elf - August 09 2021 at 22:10
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Points: 11666 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 10 2021 at 02:24
A live reindition of MDK by Magma from sometime in the 2000's is such a dumb suggestion to someone who hasn't ever heard the band before. More often than not that's something you only genuinely (or potentionally) appreciate/love when you're already a fan. I've had my mind blown by Magma live, but I would never have bothered with this clip. If I was to convince a friend that he or she should look into this or that artist or band, I would think carefully what to start with. Think of how you once got into this kind of music/bands yourself. A whole new universe will open by starting with In The Court of the Crimson King rather than the extended live version of Providence 30 years after it was first recorded.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

...
He's a professor of Music Theory. He's a Doctor of Musical Arts, has a Masters in Musical Theory, and a Bachelors in Composition/Theory. His compositions have been played at Carnegie Hall, and he has performed with the Westminster Choir under the direction of such maestros as Riccardo Muti (former conductor at La Scala and music director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra) and Sir Colin Davis (now deceased, was conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra).  
...

Hi,

SO WHAT?

Some of the most famous literati I was lucky to have been around in my young years, were also some of the biggest and shameless arse-holes you could possibly meet. But you would still kiss their "path" because of it, but to me, it showed how much less their work was about "meaning" and more about their "ego" and "fame". 

Besides, showing notes and chords does not mean anything about their knowledge or understanding of music. Putting it within the CONTEXT of everything else would help, but DD is hardly able to do that. Ohhh geee, looky looky ... I just heard a minor 15th. Wow, that makes it great music! Tongue

BTW, I got to see Karahan, Leinsdorf, Mehta and Bernstein. And their renditions of the work were super nice, and showed a good feel for the music. I know that DD LIKESA A LOT OF THE STUFF, but I'm not convinced that he has a good feel for it otherwise, since his discussion of the music is all about bits and pieces that make it a part of the whole thing as "songs". not as a whole piece of music.

If he went back to any university to talk about progressive music, he would not last very long in that music department, I don't think.


Edited by moshkito - August 10 2021 at 07:05
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

A live reindition of MDK by Magma from sometime in the 2000's is such a dumb suggestion to someone who hasn't ever heard the band before. More often than not that's something you only genuinely (or potentionally) appreciate/love when you're already a fan. I've had my mind blown by Magma live, but I would never have bothered with this clip. If I was to convince a friend that he or she should look into this or that artist or band, I would think carefully what to start with. Think of how you once got into this kind of music/bands yourself. A whole new universe will open by starting with In The Court of the Crimson King rather than the extended live version of Providence 30 years after it was first recorded.


Hi,

I think that the time and place shows a lot more about things than we give it credit for. Seeing and hearing MDK 45 to 50 years ago, was VASTLY DIFFERENT than today, considering that MAGMA never got any play on radio whatsoever (except Guy Guden's Space Pirate Radio from 1974 on whenever there was a new "import" or album available!), and the folks hearing it, for the most part were people that loved new materials and new concepts in music. Today, 90% of all the comments and thoughts mentioned in many threads are for a bunch of fans that did not have or could conceive of the idea of never having heard something, and their tube mentality of 3 to 5 minutes hurts even more. A new "MAGMA" today, would get buried in the midst of anything else, and no one would give a darn. A comment here and there, and of course the usual 50 social media replies right behind it, just like here on PA.

DD making his choice was not correct for many of us, and I would like to say that it would have been a good one, if he had the guts to do the whole thing, instead of quitting half way, which was a way of saying he did not exactly like it, or understood enough of it, to be able to continue with it. If he liked it, he would not have stopped!

To me this is criminal. You would expect folks like him to respect music a lot more than he did. And yet, when the going got tough, he stopped!
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

...
He's a professor of Music Theory. He's a Doctor of Musical Arts, has a Masters in Musical Theory, and a Bachelors in Composition/Theory. His compositions have been played at Carnegie Hall, and he has performed with the Westminster Choir under the direction of such maestros as Riccardo Muti (former conductor at La Scala and music director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra) and Sir Colin Davis (now deceased, was conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra).  
...

Hi,

SO WHAT?

Some of the most famous literati I was lucky to have been around in my young years, were also some of the biggest and shameless arse-holes you could possibly meet. But you would still kiss their "path" because of it, but to me, it showed how much less their work was about "meaning" and more about their "ego" and "fame". 

Besides, showing notes and chords does not mean anything about their knowledge or understanding of music. Putting it within the CONTEXT of everything else would help, but DD is hardly able to do that. Ohhh geee, looky looky ... I just heard a minor 15th. Wow, that makes it great music! Tongue

BTW, I got to see Karahan, Leinsdorf, Mehta and Bernstein. And their renditions of the work were super nice, and showed a good feel for the music. I know that DD LIKESA A LOT OF THE STUFF, but I'm not convinced that he has a good feel for it otherwise, since his discussion of the music is all about bits and pieces that make it a part of the whole thing as "songs". not as a whole piece of music.

If he went back to any university to talk about progressive music, he would not last very long in that music department, I don't think.

I love how you namedrop conductors that you saw in concert, as if that bolsters your knowledge of music theory. I got news for you, Chachi, it doesn't -- you watched a concert, you weren't working with the conductor. LOL Your entire tedious shtick is based on namedropping literati and musicians who you have no real connection with, and who are out of your league.

And what part of "reaction" are you not getting? Is this an English as a Second Language thing that you can't fathom? Doug reacts to a composition he has not heard as of yet, or one that he has heard in bits and pieces over the years. He literally "reacts" as he listens. And as a musician I find his takes interesting and at times fascinating -- primarily because he is not some rock jock listing his favorite prog albums, but an actual music theorist, composer and conductor from another musical discipline. 

That's. The. Whole. Point.

He finds and discusses repeating motifs, scales, progressions and even has an interest in the lyrics if the lines are worthwhile. He relates musical passages like a teacher -- because he's a professor of musical theory. Hello? Ground control to Major Tom, your circuits dead, there's something wrong.


Edited by The Dark Elf - August 10 2021 at 08:06
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For the love of God.......that's so friggin funny!! LOL

For those of us that really enjoy his reactions, I'll continue to post them here, as well others can too. I tend to only post the Friday ones but there are other good ones.
Dr Doug (he deserves that title) is more than qualified to comment on progressive rock music, since a lot of its creation, composition can stem from the classical style of creating music, which Dr Doug knows like the back of his hand.
The guy is the real deal........Period
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Ok all you FZ fans, you can relax and quit your bitchin now. Inca Roads, not as weird and off the wall as some if his other music, although this claymation video is weird, strange and kinda dumb!!

Try to enjoy.......LOL



Edited by Catcher10 - August 11 2021 at 21:39
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Dr Doug's new episode of "Extended Play Lounge", here he reacts to Dream Theater Metropolis pt 1 and then the whole of Scenes From A Memory.......1 hour 42 min long.

No need for my commentary......
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I loved that he did Spiral Architect from Black Sabbath. Really underrated song. 
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Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I loved that he did Spiral Architect from Black Sabbath. Really underrated song. 
I've not watched that one yet.......
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Yesterday, I took a glass of his favourite beverage (and mine to, in it's Scottish version...) to listen to the Metropolis vid. I had a good time, thanks both - of course - to the fantastic music and his comments on it.
I also watched his Snarky Puppy and Frank Zappa vids - a pleasure to watch and listen too! I'm not following him on his youtube-channel, so thanks for putting some of his reaction videos up here. Keep them coming!

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I too enjoyed his reaction to the whole of Scenes, I was wondering how he was going to react to the "end"....Classic!
He was really into the concept.
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

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we saw the video yesterday. he was absolutely fascinated
Me too now that I've seen it. His mind works really fast plus he's good with words and its just wonderful to experience him listening to and breaking down this fantastic piece of music - or art. I'm sort of reminded of its greatness and it makes me appreciate it even more. 
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Not my most fav song by Haken, the album is killer though.....Dr Doug does like this very much, although I could do without the political BS.
I could never get past the Muppets video.

 
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^Ross Jennings of Haken actually commented on the video and says Doug nailed the lyrical interpretation. 
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

^Ross Jennings of Haken actually commented on the video and says Doug nailed the lyrical interpretation. 
I figured it out the day I bought the album 7yrs ago.......I would like him do Falling Back to Earth or possibly Crystallised for his Friday epic day.
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