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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Points: 13063 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2021 at 12:40
Kill it then grill it on the skillet.
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Kill it then grill it on the skillet.
Some people are sensitive to killing creatures, cooking on skillet then eating them..........Thank God I am not one of them.
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Boring reaction last night.........
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Points: 17847 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 20:13
Spock's Beard.........his first listen. Doug is enthralled by the piece, I'm not surprised. Great song!



Edited by Catcher10 - July 30 2021 at 20:20
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Points: 51065 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2021 at 13:50
^It was certainly a great one to start with. Much more where that came from.
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Points: 17847 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 01:58
Really excited about this one. I don't recall seeing any reaction videos of The Flower Kings. This is one of my fav tracks next to Love Supreme. Doug is highly complimentary of the music...........
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Points: 51065 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 09:26
^Watching his video made me realize that there's a lot more going on in that song than I imagined. Cadences that don't resolve, but go in different directions, and stuff like that. I think we are all aware of the complexities of Stolt's writing, but sometimes having someone with a trained ear point it out seems a little more eye-opening (or ear-opening in this case).
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

^Watching his video made me realize that there's a lot more going on in that song than I imagined. Cadences that don't resolve, but go in different directions, and stuff like that. I think we are all aware of the complexities of Stolt's writing, but sometimes having someone with a trained ear point it out seems a little more eye-opening (or ear-opening in this case).

That's exactly why I love Doug's reactions, they are more of a mini education on composition, arranging and production than a simple reaction. 
But yea he gives so much info that sometimes I go back and listen to a pc with a different ear now.
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

^Watching his video made me realize that there's a lot more going on in that song than I imagined. Cadences that don't resolve, but go in different directions, and stuff like that. I think we are all aware of the complexities of Stolt's writing, but sometimes having someone with a trained ear point it out seems a little more eye-opening (or ear-opening in this case).

Hi,

The only thing that worries me, is if we think that some of this stuff does not show up in other music. In some ways it makes it look like "progressive music" is special, and the rest is not, which I have an issue with.

While I enjoy his explanations, I am concerned that his work is limited to some nice rock bands, and not exactly the best out there, but very nice bands nonetheless. There is a lot of music out there that is way beyond what we think, and I am not sure that DD can get his ears around it, or PERHAPS the fans that are sending him suggestions, are simply that ... FANS of one thing or another.

There is just as much, maybe not as loud and clear, in a lot of music out there, and of course, I wanna see him do some Frank Zappa from his middle period and the extended pieces specially, which I'm not sure he can do because it goes much further and away from any ideas that we can possibly consider, and it will end up having him not do it, because he has no words for it.

One concern, and it's just a personal one. In general, the folks that are linked to academic schools and works are quite enamored with the music they study, and the only things they tend to listen to and evaluate? Only music that has some recognizable moments and themes! And this was one of the issues I had with his comments on MAGMA, which I think he should have stopped listening or doing it, and maybe found a piece that did not require a more attentive and complete listen.

Reminds me of my dad, someone that knew classical music really well (over 3K LP's!), and when I gave him TOMITA's Snowflakes are Dancing ... he only said how interesting and cute, and dropped, and that was the type of comment he usually gave when he did not care for the interpretation or idea. He said the same thing about Altman, Roeg, Gilliam and many of the "new age" of directors in the late 60's and early 70's. He simply did not get it, or was not interested in finding out what was there! (He did recant his comment about 5 years later when my sister was trying the new harp - taller than she was! - and playing along with Tomita's album!) But I don't think he heard anything else. I think his ears by then were a bit more sensitive to electronic music that was not Heinemman or Stockhausen ... (not even sure of the spelling!) ... and had a far more "classical" feel than those "modern" electronic folks ever did!
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Points: 3041 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2021 at 23:38
Yeah, let's hear Sinister Footwear Mvmt. II, or The Girl in the Magnesium Dress, or This Town Is a Sealed Tuna Sandwich. 
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Points: 17847 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2021 at 02:06
I don't get the FZ need, that music is not all that. It's heavy jazz/fusion/rock and the lyrics can be simply just weird, but I suspect Doug would like it non the less for the jazz improv type stuff that happens with FZ music...plus it is different, that in itself interests people.

As far as the Magma video, that was a terrible video for him to react to. That was worse than diving into the deep end of the pool not knowing how to swim, from the start is was a mess. I highly doubt he does anymore Magma..........You can't expect him to like everything, although he is very professional about musical art since he is a composer himself.
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Points: 3041 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2021 at 21:08
^Yeah but I'm not talking about his jazzy stuff. I'm talking about his more modernist stuff. The stuff he really poured his soul into. Hence the tracks I mentioned. Alien Orifice would be another great one. I saw a video over an hour long breaking that piece down by a guy who clearly knew his stuff (on composition, AND on Zappa, he filled it with so many references to his music, as well as transcriptions of his pieces). It was an awesome video. Very well-made.
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Points: 4780 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 03:25
Doug has said that he's not unfamiliar with weird music, and he has compared parts of "A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers" with 20th century classical music, including the use of musique concrète (although I don't think there actually is any musique concrète in "A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers").
 
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Points: 17847 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 08:48
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

^Yeah but I'm not talking about his jazzy stuff. I'm talking about his more modernist stuff. The stuff he really poured his soul into. Hence the tracks I mentioned. Alien Orifice would be another great one. I saw a video over an hour long breaking that piece down by a guy who clearly knew his stuff (on composition, AND on Zappa, he filled it with so many references to his music, as well as transcriptions of his pieces). It was an awesome video. Very well-made.

Then go to his channel and make the suggestions for some FZ....maybe that will do it.
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Points: 17847 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 08:53
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Doug has said that he's not unfamiliar with weird music, and he has compared parts of "A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers" with 20th century classical music, including the use of musique concrète (although I don't think there actually is any musique concrète in "A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers").
 
Yes, he has mentioned that during all his education he has heard a lot of weird music. What I think is some of our music can be so weird that it is actually a big mess and I think that was his issue with Magma. Just because there is a lot of stuff going on in a pc of music does not mean it is always good.

But again, I doubt he criticizes anything to the extreme, that would hurt his channel. If he does not return to a band I suspect that is his way of saying...."not for me".
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Points: 17524 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 11:08
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
Yes, he has mentioned that during all his education he has heard a lot of weird music. What I think is some of our music can be so weird that it is actually a big mess and I think that was his issue with Magma. Just because there is a lot of stuff going on in a pc of music does not mean it is always good.
...
Hi,

I kinda think that most classically educated folks find anything that does not "conform" to what they KNOW and have defined, as "weird". That would mean that anything that has a different vision, or defined process, is not likely to be looked at, or appreciated more for its ability and quality of work. AND, this is the part of "academia" that I find sad. It was the same in the 70's and 80's in the Literary departments, at least at UCSB. 

(Side bar) You should see the fights between the theater folks and the English Lit folks about Shakespeare. To them Shakespeare was an image, NOT REAL, thus they concentrated on the poetry and ignored everything else. In some ways, what DD is doing is familiar to me ... and let me tell you when the RSC (with Ian Richardson) came to town, and undressed the English Lit Department ... they still deny it!

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
But again, I doubt he criticizes anything to the extreme, that would hurt his channel. If he does not return to a band I suspect that is his way of saying...."not for me".

Hi,

Honestly? That's the cheap way of saying I'm not an artist. I'm in it for the "fun" and the "fame". What he does, consequently, is not about the art at all! It's just fun and fame and another drink! NOW, I can understand why Mr. Fripp would not allow him to do KC ... because he probably saw that what DD said was not about the music at all, and he likely flipped his lid about ... what chord was that, and made it seem like Mr. Fripp did not know what he was doing, and time has shown us, in 50+ years that Mr. Fripp DOES KNOW what he is doing on stage and composition!


Edited by moshkito - August 09 2021 at 11:11
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
Yes, he has mentioned that during all his education he has heard a lot of weird music. What I think is some of our music can be so weird that it is actually a big mess and I think that was his issue with Magma. Just because there is a lot of stuff going on in a pc of music does not mean it is always good.
...
Hi,

I kinda think that most classically educated folks find anything that does not "conform" to what they KNOW and have defined, as "weird". That would mean that anything that has a different vision, or defined process, is not likely to be looked at, or appreciated more for its ability and quality of work. AND, this is the part of "academia" that I find sad. It was the same in the 70's and 80's in the Literary departments, at least at UCSB. 

(Side bar) You should see the fights between the theater folks and the English Lit folks about Shakespeare. To them Shakespeare was an image, NOT REAL, thus they concentrated on the poetry and ignored everything else. In some ways, what DD is doing is familiar to me ... and let me tell you when the RSC (with Ian Richardson) came to town, and undressed the English Lit Department ... they still deny it!

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

...
But again, I doubt he criticizes anything to the extreme, that would hurt his channel. If he does not return to a band I suspect that is his way of saying...."not for me".

Hi,

Honestly? That's the cheap way of saying I'm not an artist. I'm in it for the "fun" and the "fame". What he does, consequently, is not about the art at all! It's just fun and fame and another drink! NOW, I can understand why Mr. Fripp would not allow him to do KC ... because he probably saw that what DD said was not about the music at all, and he likely flipped his lid about ... what chord was that, and made it seem like Mr. Fripp did not know what he was doing, and time has shown us, in 50+ years that Mr. Fripp DOES KNOW what he is doing on stage and composition!

A couple things. You are an insufferable prig who thinks he knows more about music than anyone, even actual musicians. And the tedious theater analogies you apply to music are usually inapplicable and have been for nearly a decade.

Now that we have that out of the way, no one on the internet can get approval to replay/analyze King Crimson studio songs on YouTube. No one. Songs appear on the King Crimson Official YouTube site. If it appears anywhere but there, Fripp has it pulled down. The only unsanctioned stuff I've seen reviewed are live clips (that are usually inferior to the studio work). Which is hilarious when you think that the tight-fisted Robert Fripp has been spending the last year and a half drunk posting bad versions of other people's songs with his talentless wife.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

But again, I doubt he criticizes anything to the extreme, that would hurt his channel. If he does not return to a band I suspect that is his way of saying...."not for me".
 
Honestly? That's the cheap way of saying I'm not an artist. I'm in it for the "fun" and the "fame". What he does, consequently, is not about the art at all! It's just fun and fame and another drink!
 
So you think he should be an arsehole about the music he doesn't like?
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - August 09 2021 at 13:44
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Points: 17847 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2021 at 13:55
@ Pedro, I doubt anyone spends 10years of formal musical education, achieves a doctorate of music to simply have a YT reaction channel for "fun" and "fame".
Dude, if you don't like what he is doing that's fine, but for cryin out loud you can't suggest the guy has no clue about music.....He's doing what in the past on this website you have complained about and that is bring progressive music to the forefront. Prog music is what the majority of reaction channels are playing currently.

Did you watch this one Pedro??
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I want to say something without insulting anyone here, although someone always deserves it.

1-) Doug is not doing his actual job here. He prefers to spend some of his time this way. I figure he should be getting puny amounts of money out of this. Though, he got some real recognition, which should be motivating him and making him happy.

2-) Being a critic and an artist... This is a VERY complex topic. I can say that, both artists and critics lacking decency HATE each other, generally. Others can get offended by or offend each other, but only occasionally and not severely.

3-) Academical disciplines... I have differing views on this. Yet, I can say that THEY DESERVE RESPECT. They are rather infertile and rigid, but I think this is an issue like discussing democracy, and I support both.

4-) Self-declared artistry doesn't come to mean that one is an artist. One of my teachers during my M.A. education once said that, "One of the biggest tragedies in life is believing that you're an artist when you actually aren't." In all honesty, I'm not sure if there's an ultimate means to unerringly determine whether one is an artist or not. So, I just mention what my teacher said, without blindly backing it up.

5-) I value decency and courtesy more than anything in artistry and criticism. I'm sure that I can live without discourteous and immodest critics and artists. The only exception is that one does a really groundbreaking thing. Only then, I can overlook an artist's or critic's character.

Edited by Shadowyzard - August 09 2021 at 14:51
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