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Man With Hat 
Collaborator 
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166183 |
 Posted: August 01 2021 at 13:55 |
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Its funny how all the 'personal responsibility' people are all about that for others, but when it comes to themselves they believe they should be able to live without consequences. It's almost as if its not about personal responsibility at all...
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 11:11 |
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Individuals who hold strong beliefs in conspiracies often also score high in narcissism and low in self-esteem, according to 2015 research. The series of studies, published in Social Psychological and Personality Science, examined individuals to determine whether self-evaluation plays a role in predicting conspiracy beliefs. “Previous research linked the endorsement of conspiracy theories to low self-esteem,” said Aleksandra Cichocka, principal investigator and corresponding author of the study.
“We propose that conspiracy theories should rather be appealing to individuals with exaggerated feelings of self-love, such as narcissists, due to their paranoid tendencies,” she continued. In the first study, 202 participants completed a conspiracy beliefs questionnaire, a self-esteem scale, and an individual narcissism questionnaire. In the conspiracy beliefs questionnaire, participants rated the extent to which they agree with such statements as “A small, secret group of people is responsible for making all major world decisions, such as going to war” and “The American government permits or perpetrates acts of terrorism on its own soil, disguising its involvement.” Scientists found that among participants, high individual narcissism and low self-esteem significantly predicted conspiracy beliefs. In the second study, scientists sought to rule out the possibility that collective narcissism contributed to the results of the previous study. “Because conspiracy theories often refer to malevolent actions of groups, we wanted to distinguish whether it is a narcissistic image of the self or the group that predicts the endorsement of conspiracy theories,” said Cichocka. “For example…American collective narcissism predicted the endorsement of conspiracy theories involving foreign governments but not the American government,” she continued. Study 2 determined that collective narcissism does not interfere with the role that individual narcissism and low self-esteem have on conspiracy beliefs. In other words, individual narcissists with low self-esteem tend to hold beliefs in conspiracies whether or not they also exhibit collective narcissism. The third study aimed to account for the role low-self esteem plays in conspiracy beliefs by determining its relationship with negativity toward humans in general. Scientists found that the factor of low self-esteem can indeed be explained by general negativity. “The effect of low self-esteem on conspiracy beliefs can be largely attributed to the fact that low self-esteem predicts negative perceptions of humanity more broadly,” Cichocka reported. Though the studies are not able to establish a causal relationship, they do indicate that narcissism, low self-esteem, and conspiracy belief are significantly correlated. “Narcissists might be especially prone to believe in conspiracy theories due to their elevated self-consciousness connected with exaggerated feelings of being in the center of others’ attention,” said Cichocka. Edited by SteveG - August 02 2021 at 11:12 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 11:58 |
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^ Very interesting read. And the good thing is that this was written in 2015, so not during the mad times we're living now. Otherwise, it seems to me an ideological question: personal freedom over societal solidarity. I mean, some clearly privilege their own choices and liberties over the interests and well-being of their community/society. Me, me, me, over we, we, we. The motivations can come from different grounds, but what you post here explains well the functioning of how some can come to certain standpoints. We cannot generalize of course, but someone who spends 1000s of hours studying/researching bullsh*t, something of that bullsh*t will probably stick to that person...
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 12:57 |
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Attacking a person rather than staying on the topic of
discussion expresses that a person is probably an ignoramus. Instead of addressing someone’s argument or
position, attacking that person’s character only shows desperation in one’s
stance.
Moral of the story is, don’t be an ignoramus, confront the subject matter. |
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Shadowyzard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 13:50 |
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No, there's not such a thing. Immensely knowledgeable people can do personal attacks, infinitely ignorant people can stay on topic without any insults. It is a matter of temperament, not anything else. BTW, your first sentence is paradoxical. |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 13:57 |
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^^ I don't know if this is a reaction to my post, because I think I'm 100% on topic and attacking no one in person, but otherwise, you might be surprised that I agree completely with what you say here (it is probably the first of your posts of which I can say that). But confronting the "subject matter" with nonsense is not really my style...
Edited by suitkees - August 02 2021 at 13:57 |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10669 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 14:02 |
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Re Cosmic Vibration: Who is the person you are claiming was attacked?
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 18:10 |
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That post wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. However, SteveG has a tendency to go off in that direction too much. His comment that i secretly think the earth is flat actually made me chuckle. His constant attacks on anyone believing in conspiracy theories derails the discussion. People that believe in conspiracy theories are paranoid, psychotic, narcissistic, need to feel special and a host of other personality disorders. Really? If the response is your nuts, instead of challenging the premise, why should anyone continue posting? I think that’s why Silly Puppy stops posting sometimes. Which is a shame, I do like reading his posts, most of the time I file it away as, ok maybe. What does it mean to conspire? Many conspiracy theories actually turned out to be true. Yes, there are many that are BS but some eventually do come to light. Besides, there’s usually some truth to most, if not all conspiracy theories, the question is how much?
And does it really matter if someone has a selfish motive or not? When a Supreme Court case gets decided it sets precedence for future cases. Doesn’t matter if the plaintiff or defended has a selfish motive or not. my freedom. WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM??!!!??! ME! ME! ME! I could somewhat see how someone could get that impression that there was a selfish motive to my post but it couldn’t be further from the truth. Next time I’ll make it more inclusive by taking some of the I’s out. I’m all about science and technology, which go hand in hand but are not the same. I like the mRNA technology and I think it holds great promise in the future but is not ready yet. If I had cancer I may want to take the risk and try the experimental treatment. But that should be my choice! No one should have the authority to dictate what I must put inside my body! I have natural immunity, and even if I didn’t my choice would be to gamble with the virus versus risking the vaccine. This would be my choice, your choice may be different, and that’s fine, that’s the way it should be. What’s happening now is that we’re creating 2nd class citizens and heading towards a totalitarian system. Those that chose not to be vaccinated are slowly being locked out of the world. Many of which have a more robust immune system towards the virus then those that have been vaccinated. Freedoms and rights are being stripped away and people are either blind or are refusing to acknowledge this. To me this is more serious and scary than the virus. Edited by CosmicVibration - August 02 2021 at 18:14 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20616 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 18:58 |
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I was only trying to justify the reasons why you, or anyone, would threaten the health of others by spewing your insane nonsense. I'd much rather think that you are disturbed than to think that you're just evil. So yes, you're nuts.
Edited by SteveG - August 02 2021 at 18:59 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 19:24 |
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If my immunity along with probably millions of other people is more robust than of those that have been vaccinated, how are we threatening the health of others? This point has been brought up many times. I know you’re old but are you also senile? See, I can play on your level you confused old
fart. |
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JD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 19:42 |
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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JD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 19:52 |
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2 - What the hell is natural immunity? To what? How do you prove it? 3 - More robust systems? Really? Is that why something like 97% of the people in hospital with Covid right now are UN-VACINATED? 4 - I wish people would stop whining about their rights on this. Where are your voices about legalization of cannabis. What about that right? Or the right to vote? I think you need to refocus your position. Why do you think all the right wing leaders are now speaking out about getting shots, because their constituencies are dying off because they believe the lies they've been told by those very same leaders. Sorry, your arguments just don't hold water as far as I'm concerned. Edited by JD - August 02 2021 at 19:53 |
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 20:26 |
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Shouldn’t make assumptions.. I don’t belong to any specific party but I lean mostly towards liberal democrat. 1 – I think men should have very little say, unless of
course they are the one that’s pregnant.
You never know these days. 2- If you already had covid you have natural immunity towards it. It’s been proven to be more robust than the immunity you get from any of the vaccines. 3- Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry. Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination. More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762 4- The war on drugs is a huge failure.. I think all drugs not just cannabis should be legalized. Again, on most issues I lean left. As far as leaders go I’m not crazy about Biden, would have preferred Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. Trump was buffoon; for the most part I liked Barack Obama. |
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
Posted: August 02 2021 at 20:39 |
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Must I spoon feed you? You can google conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. Look here’s one: The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male was an ethically abusive study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The purpose of this study was to observe the natural history of untreated syphilis. Wikipedia
I’m somewhat with you on religion.. For the most part I consider it to be filled with half-truths and useless dogmas. Not sure why the writings had to be so cryptic. |
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8588 |
Posted: August 03 2021 at 01:45 |
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^When somebody starts making assertions about the vaccine it sends up red flags. It has become so frustrating and tiresome trying to provide healthcare and education to people on a constant diet of Newsmax and Tucker Carlson. The public understanding of their own health in the U.S is embarrassingly bad to start with, but then throw in that variable and its impossible to get through the haze of disinformation. Without getting into specifics, someone without covid actually declined a completely unrelated life sustaining treatment because the treatment might be contaminated with the poisonous covid vaccine.
Maybe that's not where you are coming from, but it would be the exception to the norm as far as my encounters. And I get it. I would avoid the flu vaccine in the past because the efficacy rate was so appallingly low. At the time I didn't fully grasp the concept that the vaccine also serves to decrease severity and duration of influenza. Also, at the time, I had not gotten the flu since junior high, so it seemed pointless. In the case of the covid vaccine, I found no reason not to take it. mRNA use in vaccines seemed to work similarly to a monoclonal antibody (they are actually incorporating mRNA into MABs now). And, I had seen enough of what covid does in acute disease that not taking it just seemed dumb. Especially when I would potentially have to care for covid patients one day, and back to my immune suppressed patient population the next. They were not requiring it. It was just the responsible thing to do. As far as your concern that we are heading to totalitarianism, I don't know what to tell you. I wonder if you have you ever talked to someone that has actually lived in a totalitarian state? It would be interesting to hear what the have to say about your concern. I mean, we just got rid of a guy who actually did abuse emergency power because there were some poor people at the border. But its strange to me to not expect short-term limitation during disasters like pandemics. There is really no evidence that they will be permanent. And nobody is going to keep you from getting groceries. Anyway, you do you. If you think you have to go to war with the government, that's fine. Good luck with that. The fact is, emergency powers have been used before and they eventually relax. No reason to think it won't be the same this time. On a related note: Any guesses what's going to happen in the greater Chicago area in 10-14 days? I'm guessing the same thing that happened 10-14 days after Independence day. I think I see like 10 masks at this "mask required" event. Not really doing totalitarianism right. 
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14892 |
Posted: August 03 2021 at 03:23 |
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@CosmicVibration: The one thing (or maybe one out of two - I don't find the postings about general conspiracy theorists helpful) I'd agree with you is that natural immunity should grant people rights as if vaccinated. I'm in Italy and honestly I'm not even 100% sure if it's the same thing all over the EU, but here, as I posted before, you get the Green Pass with vaccination, natural immunity, or (temporarily) with a negative test (which is meant to be valid everywhere in the EU - they're just rolling it out so I hope it'll work). That seems reasonable to me. In the US natural immunity won't do? I don't know exactly about what's going on on the other side of the Atlantic, but I think it should. (I doubt that'd make you happy about all this though.) What's important here is to separate the general issue (which is that we're in a pandemic and people need to be protected as Tapfret correctly argues, even to the price of temporarily restricting some freedom) and issues that stem from the difficulty to define precise rules and practicalities for anything. There are always conflicting interests and difficult more or less exceptional cases and it is very hard if not impossible to create a system that will not put somebody at an unfair disadvantage. One can argue for long about where precisely the Green Pass should be required, for how long (if at all) a negative test should be valid, what about people who for medical reasons can't get vaccinated etc. It's also correct to point to all the damage done by having schools closed or now possibly not allowing some to go to school and other things like this. Obviously whatever comes up will be used be the people who don't want the bloody thing in the first place, and yes, there are issues. Life is not always fair and we have to put up with some of them. But let's keep in mind, if there aren't robust policies to protect people, X people more will end up in intensive therapy, potentially with long term damage, and Y more will die, let's not forget about them even as long as none of them is among our friends of family and it's just anonymous numbers to us...
Edited by Lewian - August 03 2021 at 03:25 |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10669 |
Posted: August 03 2021 at 05:54 |
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Those concerned about personal freedom and government over reach should be speaking out against the governors of Florida and Texas. In those states it is against the law for businesses to protect themselves by requiring people wear masks.
If such a law was enforced on my business, I would have to shut down due to my damaged immune system (cancer). For state governments to tell businesses they have no right to protect themselves is an affront to personal freedom. Also, it should come as no surprise that Florida and Texas are the leaders in the current Covid resurgence. |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14892 |
Posted: August 03 2021 at 06:50 |
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Even if not in the US, this made me curious, and I tried to research it. I don't think so.
I think the same holds in Florida.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10669 |
Posted: August 03 2021 at 07:05 |
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^ Thanks for your research, I'm still disappointed that state government does not allow local governments to handle things in a more positive manner. This still constitutes state government over reach and is adding to the fact that Florida and Texas are leaders in Covid resurgence.
To give an example of how local governments are loosing their ability to control the situation, the (former) mayor of Miami Beach has been speaking out against Florida's over reaching laws and how they are hampering local efforts to control Covid in Miami Beach. EDIT: Correction, former Miami Beach mayor. Edited by Easy Money - August 03 2021 at 09:27 |
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6456 |
Posted: August 03 2021 at 07:24 |
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If you've had Covid, does that provide you natural immunity?
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Covid-19 and the madness of crowds
Topic Options
Lewian wrote:
