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Classic Era Prog Drummers |
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richardh 
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30001 |
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 Topic: Classic Era Prog DrummersPosted: July 11 2021 at 03:59 |
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Emerson also had a hit with his cover of the Meade Lux Lewis song Honky Train Blues, performed here with Oscar Peterson (Carl Palmer on drums for Keith but he didn't play on the record) |
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projeKct
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Posted: July 07 2021 at 16:56 |
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Sorry for the bad joke... but "Classic Era" Prog Drummer must be:
... Chester Thompson ! I'm not kidding, it really IS Chester Thompson on drums for this Era album.
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verslibre
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Posted: July 07 2021 at 16:45 |
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The drummers on Honky (just one word) were Frank Scully and Neil Symonette.
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Hrychu
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Posted: July 06 2021 at 20:07 |
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Michał Kochmański (RSC)
What an amazing drummer! |
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cstack3
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Posted: July 05 2021 at 12:21 |
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Many of the prog-related drummers of that era were also fine!
Ian Paice (Deep Purple), Roger Taylor-Meadows (Queen), John Bonham (Led Zeppelin), Bobby Caldwell (Captain Beyond), and Lee Keerslake (Uriah Heep) were all excellent!
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richardh
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Posted: July 05 2021 at 04:02 |
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^ I think he may also have played on the Keith Emerson solo record Honky Tonk Train Blues but I'm unable to corroborate that annoyingly. A lot of uncredited musicians were used during ELP's Works period.
Edited by richardh - July 05 2021 at 04:03 |
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BaldJean
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Posted: July 02 2021 at 11:38 |
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since we are at it: John Hiseman also was the drummer of Barbara Thompson's Paraphernalia and The United Jazz & Rock Ensemble
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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verslibre
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Posted: July 02 2021 at 11:16 |
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Curt Cress Clan, too!
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presdoug
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Posted: July 02 2021 at 09:18 |
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^^Thanks very much for those links-I have those recordings, but had not realized that Marshall was on them. That is awesome!
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BaldJean
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Posted: July 02 2021 at 08:59 |
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John Marshall also drums on the Volker Kriegel albums "Inside: Missing Link" (1972) and "Lift" (1973), which I both highly recommend. here a track from each album: |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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presdoug
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Posted: July 02 2021 at 07:13 |
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My favorites are:
Enrico Grosso (Dedalus) Curt Cress (Passport, Snoball) Jon Hiseman (Colosseum) John Marshall (Nucleus, Soft Machine) Hans Bathelt (Triumvirat) Carl Palmer (ELP) Peter Giger (Dzyan, GLM) |
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BaldJean
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Posted: July 02 2021 at 05:03 |
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John Densmore of The Doors was a superb drummer. you can clearly hear he had a jazz background in many songs of The Doors
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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richardh
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Posted: July 02 2021 at 04:32 |
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Brian Davison (The Nice) was also another underappreciated drummer. Refugee was his best work imo. Sharp and powerful stylistically and managed to keep up with Moraz!
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cstack3
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Posted: June 29 2021 at 00:07 |
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I don't think Michael Giles gets enough love on PA! He wasn't a Carl Palmer-type smasher, but he sure had a delicate touch on the skins.
Others who are rarely mentioned include Michael Hough from Flash and Steve Upton from Wishbone Ash.
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moshkito
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Posted: June 28 2021 at 21:52 |
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Hi, I'm listening to Pictures again. It was the first album of theirs that I got and I remember it well, and enjoyed it a lot. I'm not sure I would call it "violence", but his ability to help and strengthen Greg and the whole thing was very nice, and strong all the way through, and it was what his style and ability was all about. The more important thing, is the fact that ELP stood up and DID something that almost no rock band will EVER consider and make it important. AND, to have an audience that appreciated every minute of it. That speaks volumes for the quality of the performance, and I imagine that there would be a little showing off here and there, but all in all, I found the ability to help the lyrics and the musical moments be stronger, something that is far out and very much appreciated. In most cases, specially today, almost all bands, all they do is turn up the loudness past the pain threshold to make sure that you "hear it", and in the end, it's just an empty solo that often does not even belong in the whole of the piece they are doing! But ELP, in that album, showed that there is some serious appreciation to classical music, and its feeling, and that a rock band, can live it as well as anyone else. And they showed it! The only sad side of it, is that today, a band like ELP would probably get laughed off the stage and not appreciated because it is not metal, and the lyrics are weird and not worth remembering! It also does not need to be "loud" and "louder" to make a point, which is a difference in most cases! Reminds me of an actor friend of mine, that played Iago at UCSB. I brought along another friend (a psychic at that!!!) and I went backstage to say hello to him after the show, and the first thing he said about the young man that played Iago ... he's so soft spoken and well mannered! The best, can do a lot, and don't have to spend their time advertising and showing off. They just do it! Carl, is not a "violent" person, and his efforts are not about violence, but about interpretation and ensuring that it helps the music as much as possible. AND, that, my friend, is the one thing that is much more important and valuable for a true musician, than the notes, chords, chops and charts!
Edited by moshkito - June 29 2021 at 10:04 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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richardh
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Posted: June 28 2021 at 04:30 |
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No no no! Carl Palmer was a power house drummer and very impressive at it. One of his basic 'tricks' (he readily admitted it) was trying to play ahead of the beat and also he was very keen to fill out the sound. I've listened to ELP since I was thirteen and none of what you are saying makes sense. I recently purchased Pictures on vinyl and Palmer is off the scale amazing but tell me what part of that is about lyrics? It's sheer violence. ELP were sophisticated heavy metal at their best but even they were aware of the pretentious theatrical element of what they were doing and unashamedly so. They were good when they were really good as a band that got their rocks off but not a lot more. They tried to be 'arty' at times and Endless Enigma is a decent example but it hardly typifies the band. King Crimson and Bill Bruford much more closely aligns to what you are getting at though.
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moshkito
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Posted: June 25 2021 at 12:53 |
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Hi, Carl Palmer talked about his chops ... and you know what he said in the interview I was with? "It's about the lyrics! Not the chops!" ... this was in LA. In my ears, what creates "chops" is how the drummer adjusts to various parts of the music. However, nowadays, we are so used to the metronomic drummers, that can only hit a snare drum and call themselves a musician, when in the earlier days, it was a lot more than that and even Ringo deserves a nod for being very different than most drummers. If you do theater and film, you learn about this very quick ... the camera has to make "use" of a line well delivered, and sometimes not in a wide/long shot so no one can get the effect. Just not "hollywood" style with the well delivered line having to be delivered with the camera in your face as is the case in almost all the soaps! In music, and it is very visible in drumming, the "trickery" is funny ... Bill Bruford shows it in one of the tube bits ... how he plays in two different instruments, and he says ... it's the same thing, just sounds different. That's not exactly "chops" and he knew it, but because it sounded different elsewhere it was thought of as "chops". Carl was very sensitive to the lyrics and it's in almost all the albums, so thinking of him as just a drummer with "chops" is almost like saying that he just put those moments in there ad nauseum, or ad lib. AND THAT IS NOT TRUE. It was, sort of, about taking the lyrics "literally". It was, and is, somewhat like taking the lyrics and making them stand out with the singer ... and this is something that the majority of the drummers we listen to, can not do right, as they are afraid that they will mess up the "timing" and then lose his job because of it! For the best out there, it's not about the chops ... it's about the music. Or pretty soon we will be discussing Moonie's over use of all cymbals and call it "chops" ... it wasn't. It was his way of accentuating something many times ... which the other members of the band appreciated, and helped make their music better and more special than the rest of the mill stuff on the air!
Edited by moshkito - June 25 2021 at 12:55 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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richardh
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Posted: June 25 2021 at 08:14 |
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^I wonder if anyone ever has ever told Carl Palmer and Neil Peart didn't have chops
 I feel as usual that you are actually arguing with yourself. Moon was an incredibly accurate drummer when he wasn't 'high' or messing about and Bonzo was of course an incredible drummer by anyone's standards. More importantly they had a recognisable style or personality. Virtually no drummers have that any more even assuming they have the chops.
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moshkito
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Posted: June 24 2021 at 10:51 |
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The part that scares me, is that we end up thinking that Pierre Moerlin, or Moonie, or Bonzo, did not have the "accuracy", which to me suggests that "accuracy" is an idea that has little to do with the actual life of the music ... it is being used strictly to setup a solo or sustain other musicians that otherwise would be uncomfortable with a drummer that was more "educated" and "smarter" than simply maintaining a beat.
Those two did not have "chops" ... they did not need them, because what they did was to accentuate the music which made it different from everyone else's. Carl was specially adept at making sure that the poetic way that Greg sang things were accentuated better so to make the lyrics more valuable and important, which made Greg sound a lot better than conventional singers. You KNEW what the lyrics meant and you UNDERSTOOD what it was all about because it was colored properly, and not with just a run of the mill stupid snare drum beat that never changes in so many bands, even when the music is different! That's all you need to really know ... how someone that appreciates lyrics adds to the whole thing, not just keeping a beat. Bonzo, more than likely, also made room for Robert's singing, and added to it! Both Carl and Neil were not worried about their buddies missing a beat at all ... and they knew how to continue and adjust if they had to which is what a good "drummer" will do, instead of the hackers that simply continue their snare beat to make sure everyone is on the dime! As an example, Mani (Guru Guru) used to say that he never played drums to the bass ... he was always along with the guitar, and it really showed in the early days a lot more than later. This is the part of "music" that is not appreciated in conventional/commercial sounding groups and their "fans", because it really is not about the music!
The only thing that I thought was a bit "less" in the KC grouping of 3 drummers, believe or not, was the use of Gavin as the 3rd, and while he is a very strong metronomic drummer that has a very good sense of timing, almost all of the special touches and moments were not done by him in almost all the pieces, and left the rest of the pounding to him. I imagine that RF likes him, because he is very steady and not flaky in some cases, or maybe wanting to do different things on different nights as Bill Bruford apparently did. Bill, btw, was not that great in the early days of YES. He became way better when he sided with KC because all of a sudden he could create moments that added to the whole thing, and this helped make the band special during his time. Edited by moshkito - June 25 2021 at 07:06 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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siLLy puPPy
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Posted: June 23 2021 at 07:07 |
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NEIL PERT! 2112 came out in 1976! CHRISTIAN VANDER! Gianchi Stringa on YS from Il Baletto di Bronzo also deserves kudos
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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verslibre wrote: