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Artists you question or object to in PA

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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 07:32
Couple of questions for the genre team members that approve, or not, artists for inclusion on PA.

1. Do the team members listen to the same album from the nominated artist and discuss why or why not to approve, or is it just a vote from each team member? 
2. Does it need to be a unanimous vote to include a artist or does majority rule?
3. Currently, unless the website has not been updated, (crossover, post/math rock, eclectic, experimental, RPI, tech/extreme, and prog metal), have an even number of members. If the vote ends in a tie, who breaks the tie?
4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs?
5. Has an artist that was initially approved ever been removed from PA due to further consideration?
6. Has an artist that has been initially rejected get approved after further discussions?
7. On average, how many artists do you review in a week?

Thanks. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 07:50
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

As far as Buckethead, i have reviewed all 360 or whatever albums he has put out and i can tell you for sure that a few of those are bonafide prog albums and a scant few are some of the most sophisticated mind blowing prog that you could ever possibly hear!
I notice you have given Buckethead several 1 and 2 star reviews. If only a few releases out of 360 are prog, then the vast majority are not. I've only heard "Population Override", his highest rated on PA, and found it to be boring and not prog at all. You wrote in one of your Buckethead reviews "i have to say that dude has simply been recycling the same old tired ideas now for quite some time and clearly more interested in quantity over quality."  That is what I thought of Population Override. 

Could you share with us the most sophisticated mind blowing prog releases he has made?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 08:51
Unless the site owner (Max) actually responds to this thread (me being 'pleasant' is more likely) the only 'learning experience' to be gained re the OP, is tacit confirmation that nothing is going to change with regards to historical admissions on PA. I take no pleasure in this, just trying to save you keystrokes in convincing our absent landlord to evict perceived squatters.


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 22 2021 at 08:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:08
In response to Grumpyprogfan's questions

Couple of questions for the genre team members that approve, or not, artists for inclusion on PA.

1. Do the team members listen to the same album from the nominated artist and discuss why or why not to approve, or is it just a vote from each team member? Generally we'll listen several albums, it helps if the suggestor has recommended one or two as good examples. If the team members are hearing different things we'll suggest amongst which ones are strongest to make the case. There's plenty of back and forth.
2. Does it need to be a unanimous vote to include a artist or does majority rule? On a three man team one NO will reject the band, if it's 2 YES and one MOVE to another sub-genre it would be a YES, two MOVE and one YES would be a MOVE
3. Currently, unless the website has not been updated, (crossover, post/math rock, eclectic, experimental, RPI, tech/extreme, and prog metal), have an even number of members. If the vote ends in a tie, who breaks the tie? We talk as a team and agree the action, its all very civil
4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs? Generally full albums and a representative amount, if they only have 3 albums I'll listen to them all, if they have 20 I'll try and find 4 or 5 representative ones. I find it best to listen to albums as a complete work not as a set of tracks.
5. Has an artist that was initially approved ever been removed from PA due to further consideration? 
6. Has an artist that has been initially rejected get approved after further discussions? If there is one NO and the other members feel strongly about it being a YES we'll certainly talk about it. If they are still certain its a NO then it stays rejected. A band is eligible to be reassessed if they have released an album after the rejection but in that case it needs to be unanimous
7. On average, how many artists do you review in a week? On Eclectic & Avant we don't get the same volume as many sub-genres. Most recommendations get reviewed within a couple of weeks and there's usually no more than 2 or 3 to review in a week.

Thanks. 

Others can correct anything I got horribly wrong LOL




Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 22 2021 at 09:08
Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:09
I have been on the Prog Metal team for a very short time, but I’m happy to answer what I can to the best of my ability.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

1. Do the team members listen to the same album from the nominated artist and discuss why or why not to approve, or is it just a vote from each team member?
In most cases, I suspect so, though I guess it’s not always the case. I’m not sure that it matters, particularly.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

2. Does it need to be a unanimous vote to include a artist or does majority rule?
From my understanding, it needs to be unanimous only if approving a band or artist that has previously been rejected. Otherwise, a majority is fine. However, what you neglected to ask if how great of a majority is needed, and I don’t actually know the answer there, so hopefully someone else can answer that.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

3. Currently, unless the website has not been updated, (crossover, post/math rock, eclectic, experimental, RPI, tech/extreme, and prog metal), have an even number of members. If the vote ends in a tie, who breaks the tie?
It wouldn’t need the tie broken, because it wouldn’t be a majority, and a majority is required to accept a band or artist into PA. Thus, a tie would, I assume, be a rejection unless someone were willing to change their no vote to a yes - which is always possible, though unlikely.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs?
I can only speak for myself, but I would never listen to random song. But unless I absolutely had to, I would not listen to an entire catalogue either. I listen to an album in full, and if that is not sufficient for me to vote yes, then I will listen to another. Rinse and repeat. But often I don’t need to listen to more than one album, because within that first album I can see why they have been put forward, and am happy to give a yes vote.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

5. Has an artist that was initially approved ever been removed from PA due to further consideration?
6. Has an artist that has been initially rejected get approved after further discussions?
I can’t speak for the first question, but for the second, absolutely! Just this week, VOLA was cleared for inclusion in PA, after having been rejected on two previous occasions.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

7. On average, how many artists do you review in a week?

Two or three, I guess? I’ve never counted. Sometimes one album is sufficient, and sometimes I need to listen to two or three. So it’s not necessarily the amount of submissions that take up time, so much as how much I need to listen from each submission.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:25
A few more comments on your questions:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Couple of questions for the genre team members that approve, or not, artists for inclusion on PA.

5. Has an artist that was initially approved ever been removed from PA due to further consideration?  Yes

7. On average, how many artists do you review in a week?  The Progressive Metal team is quite busy most of the time and sometimes we can get 7-8 suggestions in a week or more.  But there are 3 sub-genres under the PM team that have to be considered:  Progressive Metal, Tech/Extreme Prog Metal, and Experimental/Post Metal.  This raises another question:  Why does PM have to have 3 sub-genres?  Because it needs them and the differences are usually distinct, but sometimes they can be quite difficult as they can touch on all three sub-genres.  We not only vote on the band, but we vote on which sub-genre they fall under.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:34
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs?
I can only speak for myself, but I would never listen to random song. But unless I absolutely had to, I would not listen to an entire catalogue either. I listen to an album in full, and if that is not sufficient for me to vote yes, then I will listen to another. Rinse and repeat. But often I don’t need to listen to more than one album, because within that first album I can see why they have been put forward, and am happy to give a yes vote.



I think the better and "should be" method must be like, listening to at least one song from various albums of the band. Exises is not included here in Prog Metal category. Their debut is not prog, and their sophomore is indisputably prog. For instance. Also is there a "criteria" in this? If I were you, I'd include Exises here. 1 prog album, and one not. And their last is prog. That should suffice. FYI: Cristi knows about Exises. I really don't exactly know how you work. Unless "suggested", do you take action to include bands?


Edited by Shadowyzard - June 22 2021 at 09:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:34
^Thanks so much for the replies. How does one get to be a team member? I wouldn't want that responsibility, seems like a lot of work for no pay. So many thanks to all genre team members. Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:50
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Thanks so much for the replies. How does one get to be a team member? I wouldn't want that responsibility, seems like a lot of work for no pay.
Yes, but they never mention the drunken debauchery that goes on during and after the voting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:56
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs?
I can only speak for myself, but I would never listen to random song. But unless I absolutely had to, I would not listen to an entire catalogue either. I listen to an album in full, and if that is not sufficient for me to vote yes, then I will listen to another. Rinse and repeat. But often I don’t need to listen to more than one album, because within that first album I can see why they have been put forward, and am happy to give a yes vote.



I think the better and "should be" method must be like, listening to at least one song from various albums of the band. Exises is not included here in Prog Metal category. Their debut is not prog, and their sophomore is indisputably prog. For instance. Also is there a "criteria" in this? If I were you, I'd include Exises here. 1 prog album, and one not. And their last is prog. That should suffice.

That sounds a horrendous method. At least one song? How does one decide which song? An album by album approach is surely best, in my opinion. After listening to one album, if it is not prog at all to my ears, or not prog “enough”, I can listen to another. In the case of Exises, if I listened to their debut first, I would never write them off because it did not sound prog at all. I’d merely move on to the second album, which is apparently “indisputably prog”. Actually, I tend to listen to the most recent album first, so I’d hear that album before the debut anyway.

I don’t see Exises on Prog Freak, so has the band even been submitted for inclusion? From your description of the band, if the second album were indisputably prog, then of course they would be accepted for inclusion. There are already several bands in PA who have only two or three albums, of which realistically only one is prog.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:56
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs?
I can only speak for myself, but I would never listen to random song. But unless I absolutely had to, I would not listen to an entire catalogue either. I listen to an album in full, and if that is not sufficient for me to vote yes, then I will listen to another. Rinse and repeat. But often I don’t need to listen to more than one album, because within that first album I can see why they have been put forward, and am happy to give a yes vote.



I think the better and "should be" method must be like, listening to at least one song from various albums of the band. Exises is not included here in Prog Metal category. Their debut is not prog, and their sophomore is indisputably prog. For instance. Also is there a "criteria" in this? If I were you, I'd include Exises here. 1 prog album, and one not. And their last is prog. That should suffice.

Is this the Exises you are talking about?  Exises | EXISES | Tribunal + Divebomb Records (bandcamp.com)

Is this their debut or sophomore album?  Can you provide a link to stream the sophomore album if it's not?

If you would like to see them included in the archives, then you should suggest their addition through the suggestion thread "Suggest New Bands and Artists".  That is the first step to getting the bands music to the genre teams.  Make sure to read the submission rules:  PLEASE READ FIRST - Artist Submission Procedure - Progressive Rock Music Forum (progarchives.com)





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 09:58
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Thanks so much for the replies. How does one get to be a team member? I wouldn't want that responsibility, seems like a lot of work for no pay.
Yes, but they never mention the drunken debauchery that goes on during and after the voting.

Sometimes I need a drink just to make it through an album. There’s an awful lot I don’t like in the realms of prog metal. Of course, I don’t vote by whether or not I like it. I don’t need to like it to recognise of its prog. But sometimes I recognise that I need a beer….. 🍺 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 10:00
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Thanks so much for the replies. How does one get to be a team member? I wouldn't want that responsibility, seems like a lot of work for no pay.
Yes, but they never mention the drunken debauchery that goes on during and after the voting.

PM meeting tonight....Are you bringing the booze and the mudshark bait Steve?

(just kidding about the PM meeting btw, but the drunken debauchery is always welcome)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 10:00
Nick and I seem to be on the same wavelength.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 10:08
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

If you would like to see them included in the archives, then you should suggest their addition through the suggestion thread "Suggest New Bands and Artists".


It would be cool to see them here, but I highly doubt that I "should" do such a thing for that. But, if your way is like that, and doesn't feature your inclusions without "suggestion", I still respect that. As I said, Cristi knows about that band. And mind you, I used Exises as an example, and a means to have some insight on how you work. You don't have to share your secrets with us, though. LOLWink

Here is their Metallum main page: https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/exises/7970

Here is an example song from their sophomore:






Edited by Shadowyzard - June 22 2021 at 10:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 10:10
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs?
I can only speak for myself, but I would never listen to random song. But unless I absolutely had to, I would not listen to an entire catalogue either. I listen to an album in full, and if that is not sufficient for me to vote yes, then I will listen to another. Rinse and repeat. But often I don’t need to listen to more than one album, because within that first album I can see why they have been put forward, and am happy to give a yes vote.



I think the better and "should be" method must be like, listening to at least one song from various albums of the band. Exises is not included here in Prog Metal category. Their debut is not prog, and their sophomore is indisputably prog. For instance. Also is there a "criteria" in this? If I were you, I'd include Exises here. 1 prog album, and one not. And their last is prog. That should suffice.

That sounds a horrendous method.


Sorry but I didn't suggest a "complete" method here. And as is obvious, I said "at least one song". Far better a method than, listening to 2 albums of a band that has 10 albums, and clicking yes...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 10:11
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

If you would like to see them included in the archives, then you should suggest their addition through the suggestion thread "Suggest New Bands and Artists".


It would be cool to see them here, but I highly doubt that I "should" do such a thing for that. But, if your was is like that, and doesn't feature your inclusions without "suggestion", I still respect that. As I said, Cristi knows about that band. And mind you, I used Exises as an example, and a means to have some insight on how you work. You don't have to share them with us, though. LOLWink

Here is their Metallum main page: https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/exises/7970


you can suggest Exises for progressive metal. Tongue

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 10:34
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

As far as Buckethead, i have reviewed all 360 or whatever albums he has put out and i can tell you for sure that a few of those are bonafide prog albums and a scant few are some of the most sophisticated mind blowing prog that you could ever possibly hear!
I notice you have given Buckethead several 1 and 2 star reviews. If only a few releases out of 360 are prog, then the vast majority are not. I've only heard "Population Override", his highest rated on PA, and found it to be boring and not prog at all. You wrote in one of your Buckethead reviews "i have to say that dude has simply been recycling the same old tired ideas now for quite some time and clearly more interested in quantity over quality."  That is what I thought of Population Override. 

Could you share with us the most sophisticated mind blowing prog releases he has made?


What? You're not willing to read hundreds of reviews to find that out? LOL

The most progressive and experimental rock my world. This includes"

Keep in mind many albums have prog and non-prog

These are my favorite PIKEs with the most outrageously wild appearing towards the top

Teeter Slaughter
Slug Cartilage
Twilight Constrictor
Carnival of Cartilage
Ride Operator Q Bozo
Empty Space
You Can't Triple Stamp A Double Stamp
Night Gallery
It's Alive
3' Clearance
Balloon Cement
Ydrapoej
Infinity Hill
Geppetos Trunk
Interstellar Slunk
Red Pepper Restaurant
Magic Lantern
Passageways
Herbie Theatre
Down The Bayou Part One
Twisted Branches
Orange Tree
Ognarader
29 Days Til Halloween: Blurmwood
Pike Doors
Attic Garden
Santa's Toy Workshop
Out Orbit
Undersea Dead City
Poseidon
March of the Slunks
The Boiling Pond
It Smells Like Frogs

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 11:01
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs?
I can only speak for myself, but I would never listen to random song. But unless I absolutely had to, I would not listen to an entire catalogue either. I listen to an album in full, and if that is not sufficient for me to vote yes, then I will listen to another. Rinse and repeat. But often I don’t need to listen to more than one album, because within that first album I can see why they have been put forward, and am happy to give a yes vote.



I think the better and "should be" method must be like, listening to at least one song from various albums of the band. Exises is not included here in Prog Metal category. Their debut is not prog, and their sophomore is indisputably prog. For instance. Also is there a "criteria" in this? If I were you, I'd include Exises here. 1 prog album, and one not. And their last is prog. That should suffice.

That sounds a horrendous method.


Sorry but I didn't suggest a "complete" method here. And as is obvious, I said "at least one song". Far better a method than, listening to 2 albums of a band that has 10 albums, and clicking yes...

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here. To use your example, there is no need to listen to all ten albums of a band if two of them show they are prog. As Mike said, some weeks the prog metal team have upwards of half a dozen submissions to get though. It simply wouldn’t be practical to attempt to listen to every album from every band submitted. And it’s simply too haphazard to listen to the odd song from each (yes, I know you said “at least one”, but that’s irrelevant as far as I’m concerned). If I’m going to listen to several songs from an album, I may as well listen to the entire album - and often that is necessary in prog anyway - as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to listen to only some of the parts will not give the full picture.

So a whole album I will listen to. If it is prog, then I vote for yes, unless I am worried it is not representative of the band as a whole. (For example, Bad Religion is likely not ever going to be considered a prog band - but they did release a prog album. Imagine if the first album I listened to were “Into the Unknown” by that band. It’s prog. But it’s the only prog album in their discography and it is completely uncharacteristic.) if I think something is prog, but I need to listen further, then I will listen to another album. If I think something is not prog from the first album I listen to, then I will listen to another. If that doesn’t seem prog to me, then I temporarily vote unsure, while I find out which album/s I should be listening to, in order to find prog. I prefer inclusion, rather than exclusion, so if a band I submitted, I will do my best to find that prog. But sometimes I can’t, and I have definitely voted no a fair few times.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2021 at 11:07
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

And it’s simply too haphazard to listen to the odd song from each (yes, I know you said “at least one”, but that’s irrelevant as far as I’m concerned).


How can it be "irrelevant"? Anyway, let's ignore each other. Yawn. I didn't read the rest.
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