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Artists you question or object to in PA |
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Grumpyprogfan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 12450 |
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Couple of questions for the genre team members that approve, or not, artists for inclusion on PA.
1. Do the team members listen to the same album from the nominated artist and discuss why or why not to approve, or is it just a vote from each team member? 2. Does it need to be a unanimous vote to include a artist or does majority rule? 3. Currently, unless the website has not been updated, (crossover, post/math rock, eclectic, experimental, RPI, tech/extreme, and prog metal), have an even number of members. If the vote ends in a tie, who breaks the tie? 4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs? 5. Has an artist that was initially approved ever been removed from PA due to further consideration? 6. Has an artist that has been initially rejected get approved after further discussions? 7. On average, how many artists do you review in a week? Thanks. |
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Grumpyprogfan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 12450 |
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Could you share with us the most sophisticated mind blowing prog releases he has made?
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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Unless the site owner (Max) actually responds to this thread (me being 'pleasant' is more likely) the only 'learning experience' to be gained re the OP, is tacit confirmation that nothing is going to change with regards to historical admissions on PA. I take no pleasure in this, just trying to save you keystrokes in convincing our absent landlord to evict perceived squatters.
Edited by ExittheLemming - June 22 2021 at 08:59 |
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Nogbad_The_Bad ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 21343 |
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In response to Grumpyprogfan's questions 1. Do the team members listen to the same album from the nominated artist and discuss why or why not to approve, or is it just a vote from each team member? Generally we'll listen several albums, it helps if the suggestor has recommended one or two as good examples. If the team members are hearing different things we'll suggest amongst which ones are strongest to make the case. There's plenty of back and forth. 2. Does it need to be a unanimous vote to include a artist or does majority rule? On a three man team one NO will reject the band, if it's 2 YES and one MOVE to another sub-genre it would be a YES, two MOVE and one YES would be a MOVE 3. Currently, unless the website has not been updated, (crossover, post/math rock, eclectic, experimental, RPI, tech/extreme, and prog metal), have an even number of members. If the vote ends in a tie, who breaks the tie? We talk as a team and agree the action, its all very civil 4. Do you listen to the artists entire catalogue or just random songs? Generally full albums and a representative amount, if they only have 3 albums I'll listen to them all, if they have 20 I'll try and find 4 or 5 representative ones. I find it best to listen to albums as a complete work not as a set of tracks. 5. Has an artist that was initially approved ever been removed from PA due to further consideration? 6. Has an artist that has been initially rejected get approved after further discussions? If there is one NO and the other members feel strongly about it being a YES we'll certainly talk about it. If they are still certain its a NO then it stays rejected. A band is eligible to be reassessed if they have released an album after the rejection but in that case it needs to be unanimous 7. On average, how many artists do you review in a week? On Eclectic & Avant we don't get the same volume as many sub-genres. Most recommendations get reviewed within a couple of weeks and there's usually no more than 2 or 3 to review in a week. Thanks. Others can correct anything I got horribly wrong ![]() Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 22 2021 at 09:08 |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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nick_h_nz ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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I have been on the Prog Metal team for a very short time, but I’m happy to answer what I can to the best of my ability.
In most cases, I suspect so, though I guess it’s not always the case. I’m not sure that it matters, particularly.
From my understanding, it needs to be unanimous only if approving a band or artist that has previously been rejected. Otherwise, a majority is fine. However, what you neglected to ask if how great of a majority is needed, and I don’t actually know the answer there, so hopefully someone else can answer that.
It wouldn’t need the tie broken, because it wouldn’t be a majority, and a majority is required to accept a band or artist into PA. Thus, a tie would, I assume, be a rejection unless someone were willing to change their no vote to a yes - which is always possible, though unlikely.
I can only speak for myself, but I would never listen to random song. But unless I absolutely had to, I would not listen to an entire catalogue either. I listen to an album in full, and if that is not sufficient for me to vote yes, then I will listen to another. Rinse and repeat. But often I don’t need to listen to more than one album, because within that first album I can see why they have been put forward, and am happy to give a yes vote.
I can’t speak for the first question, but for the second, absolutely! Just this week, VOLA was cleared for inclusion in PA, after having been rejected on two previous occasions.
Two or three, I guess? I’ve never counted. Sometimes one album is sufficient, and sometimes I need to listen to two or three. So it’s not necessarily the amount of submissions that take up time, so much as how much I need to listen from each submission. |
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TCat ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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A few more comments on your questions:
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Shadowyzard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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I think the better and "should be" method must be like, listening to at least one song from various albums of the band. Exises is not included here in Prog Metal category. Their debut is not prog, and their sophomore is indisputably prog. For instance. Also is there a "criteria" in this? If I were you, I'd include Exises here. 1 prog album, and one not. And their last is prog. That should suffice. FYI: Cristi knows about Exises. I really don't exactly know how you work. Unless "suggested", do you take action to include bands? Edited by Shadowyzard - June 22 2021 at 09:52 |
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Grumpyprogfan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 12450 |
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^Thanks so much for the replies. How does one get to be a team member? I wouldn't want that responsibility, seems like a lot of work for no pay. So many thanks to all genre team members.
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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nick_h_nz ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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That sounds a horrendous method. At least one song? How does one decide which song? An album by album approach is surely best, in my opinion. After listening to one album, if it is not prog at all to my ears, or not prog “enough”, I can listen to another. In the case of Exises, if I listened to their debut first, I would never write them off because it did not sound prog at all. I’d merely move on to the second album, which is apparently “indisputably prog”. Actually, I tend to listen to the most recent album first, so I’d hear that album before the debut anyway. I don’t see Exises on Prog Freak, so has the band even been submitted for inclusion? From your description of the band, if the second album were indisputably prog, then of course they would be accepted for inclusion. There are already several bands in PA who have only two or three albums, of which realistically only one is prog. |
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TCat ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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Is this the Exises you are talking about? Exises | EXISES | Tribunal + Divebomb Records (bandcamp.com) Is this their debut or sophomore album? Can you provide a link to stream the sophomore album if it's not? If you would like to see them included in the archives, then you should suggest their addition through the suggestion thread "Suggest New Bands and Artists". That is the first step to getting the bands music to the genre teams. Make sure to read the submission rules: PLEASE READ FIRST - Artist Submission Procedure - Progressive Rock Music Forum (progarchives.com) |
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nick_h_nz ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Sometimes I need a drink just to make it through an album. There’s an awful lot I don’t like in the realms of prog metal. Of course, I don’t vote by whether or not I like it. I don’t need to like it to recognise of its prog. But sometimes I recognise that I need a beer….. 🍺 |
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TCat ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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PM meeting tonight....Are you bringing the booze and the mudshark bait Steve? (just kidding about the PM meeting btw, but the drunken debauchery is always welcome)
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TCat ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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Nick and I seem to be on the same wavelength.
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Shadowyzard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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It would be cool to see them here, but I highly doubt that I "should" do such a thing for that. But, if your way is like that, and doesn't feature your inclusions without "suggestion", I still respect that. As I said, Cristi knows about that band. And mind you, I used Exises as an example, and a means to have some insight on how you work. You don't have to share your secrets with us, though. ![]() ![]() Here is their Metallum main page: https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/exises/7970 Here is an example song from their sophomore: Edited by Shadowyzard - June 22 2021 at 10:12 |
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Shadowyzard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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Sorry but I didn't suggest a "complete" method here. And as is obvious, I said "at least one song". Far better a method than, listening to 2 albums of a band that has 10 albums, and clicking yes... |
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Cristi ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 45776 |
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you can suggest Exises for progressive metal. ![]() |
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15347 |
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What? You're not willing to read hundreds of reviews to find that out? ![]() The most progressive and experimental rock my world. This includes" Keep in mind many albums have prog and non-prog These are my favorite PIKEs with the most outrageously wild appearing towards the top Teeter Slaughter Slug Cartilage Twilight Constrictor Carnival of Cartilage Ride Operator Q Bozo Empty Space You Can't Triple Stamp A Double Stamp Night Gallery It's Alive 3' Clearance Balloon Cement Ydrapoej Infinity Hill Geppetos Trunk Interstellar Slunk Red Pepper Restaurant Magic Lantern Passageways Herbie Theatre Down The Bayou Part One Twisted Branches Orange Tree Ognarader 29 Days Til Halloween: Blurmwood Pike Doors Attic Garden Santa's Toy Workshop Out Orbit Undersea Dead City Poseidon March of the Slunks The Boiling Pond It Smells Like Frogs
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![]() https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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nick_h_nz ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here. To use your example, there is no need to listen to all ten albums of a band if two of them show they are prog. As Mike said, some weeks the prog metal team have upwards of half a dozen submissions to get though. It simply wouldn’t be practical to attempt to listen to every album from every band submitted. And it’s simply too haphazard to listen to the odd song from each (yes, I know you said “at least one”, but that’s irrelevant as far as I’m concerned). If I’m going to listen to several songs from an album, I may as well listen to the entire album - and often that is necessary in prog anyway - as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to listen to only some of the parts will not give the full picture. So a whole album I will listen to. If it is prog, then I vote for yes, unless I am worried it is not representative of the band as a whole. (For example, Bad Religion is likely not ever going to be considered a prog band - but they did release a prog album. Imagine if the first album I listened to were “Into the Unknown” by that band. It’s prog. But it’s the only prog album in their discography and it is completely uncharacteristic.) if I think something is prog, but I need to listen further, then I will listen to another album. If I think something is not prog from the first album I listen to, then I will listen to another. If that doesn’t seem prog to me, then I temporarily vote unsure, while I find out which album/s I should be listening to, in order to find prog. I prefer inclusion, rather than exclusion, so if a band I submitted, I will do my best to find that prog. But sometimes I can’t, and I have definitely voted no a fair few times. |
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Shadowyzard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 24 2020 Location: Davutlar Status: Offline Points: 4506 |
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How can it be "irrelevant"? Anyway, let's ignore each other. Yawn. I didn't read the rest. |
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