Roger Waters~Animals Reissue...Issue

Dellinger wrote: The Dark Elf wrote: Catcher10 wrote: In the world of rock guitarists, David Gilmour is one of the most highly regarded musicians, that is undeniable. Possibly in the world of music reviewers (prog) he does not rate that high, which is pretty cra-cra.  I suspect if Prog Magazine did a poll (I am sure they have), he would rate pretty high as one of the most respected, gifted guitarists of the past 50yrs. Agreed. Great guitarist with an instantly recognizable style that is often copied but rarely duplicated. It's quite amusing that Waters is still whining about his legacy. Perhaps because it's Gilmour's guitar and voice that is most remembered and revered.  The Wall? Most folks ignore Water's tedious courtroom antics at the end of the album and focus on Gilmour's solo on "Comfortably Numb". Animals? It's all about "Dogs" or the wicked guitar work on "Pigs" and "Sheep" (throw in Richard Wright's keyboards). WYWH? Again, it's Gilmour on "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" or the heartbreakingly beautiful "Wish You Were Here". Meddle? It's the interplay between Gilmour and Wright on "Echoes", not Water's dull "St. Tropez" (that I skip when listening). The Final Cut was the end for a large majority of Floyd fans because of the annoying talk-singing banter of Waters throughout what is basically a solo album reliving the whole "My Daddy's Dead" schtick that was played out already on The Wall (in fact, a few songs are from The Wall sessions).  And even with The Final Cut I have read many times how people love Gilmour's guitars on many of the songs.

Edited by rogerthat - June 09 2021 at 22:51

rogerthat wrote: Catcher10 wrote: In the world of rock guitarists, David Gilmour is one of the most highly regarded musicians, that is undeniable. Possibly in the world of music reviewers (prog) he does not rate that high, which is pretty cra-cra.  I suspect if Prog Magazine did a poll (I am sure they have), he would rate pretty high as one of the most respected, gifted guitarists of the past 50yrs. Actually he only got in at no.14 in the RS 100 greatest guitarists list.  I don't have a good opinion about anything RS but I only offer this retort because you brought it up as an argument.  And the RS list was voted on by many well known guitarists, many who would be regarded as great. And him getting in at no.14 has a lot to do with him being in one of the most popular bands of all time. There's nobody in the rock world who hasn't heard of Gilmour so he will get in there somewhere.  But even so he does not beat out SRV, BBK, Blackmore just as I said in the previous post (which I had written before I read this poll). https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/lindsey-buckingham-39147/

Catcher10 wrote: Never said he was the one of the top guitarists from a poll perspective, because I know where those polls end up. You could be ranked #100 and still be highly regarded.  I remember that RS poll and it's not the top say 20 but the bottom 50 that is a huge mess, I remember mentioning how on earth could Kurt Cobain even be listed??? All you can say is he played the guitar, but to be a top 100....nahh!

Catcher10 wrote: I'm good with that since it is your opinion of his playing. But you have to remember that these older rock guitarist influence is not really from the rock/hard rock establishment. It comes from the blues and/or soul and R&B genres, especially those from UK. They wanted to be the next Buddy Guy, BB King, Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson or Albert King.  This is why most of them picked up the guitar in the first place, so that "sleepy" playing is the blues influence, which turned into rock guitar playing for them, but still the American blues is what is in their bones from hearing it as kids. Jimmy Page would not be who he is without the blues....

rogerthat wrote: Dellinger wrote: The Dark Elf wrote: Catcher10 wrote: In the world of rock guitarists, David Gilmour is one of the most highly regarded musicians, that is undeniable. Possibly in the world of music reviewers (prog) he does not rate that high, which is pretty cra-cra.  I suspect if Prog Magazine did a poll (I am sure they have), he would rate pretty high as one of the most respected, gifted guitarists of the past 50yrs. Agreed. Great guitarist with an instantly recognizable style that is often copied but rarely duplicated. It's quite amusing that Waters is still whining about his legacy. Perhaps because it's Gilmour's guitar and voice that is most remembered and revered.  The Wall? Most folks ignore Water's tedious courtroom antics at the end of the album and focus on Gilmour's solo on "Comfortably Numb". Animals? It's all about "Dogs" or the wicked guitar work on "Pigs" and "Sheep" (throw in Richard Wright's keyboards). WYWH? Again, it's Gilmour on "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" or the heartbreakingly beautiful "Wish You Were Here". Meddle? It's the interplay between Gilmour and Wright on "Echoes", not Water's dull "St. Tropez" (that I skip when listening). The Final Cut was the end for a large majority of Floyd fans because of the annoying talk-singing banter of Waters throughout what is basically a solo album reliving the whole "My Daddy's Dead" schtick that was played out already on The Wall (in fact, a few songs are from The Wall sessions).  And even with The Final Cut I have read many times how people love Gilmour's guitars on many of the songs. All that is true but it does not make Gilmour greater than the likes of BBK, Albert King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, etc.  He stands out more because he played in a bluesy style with a lot of soul in rock at a time when fast playing was already beginning to be prioritized (eg Blackmore).  Albeit I wouldn't rank him above Blackmore for that matter, nor Roth/Schenker. He's better than Clapton, I grant. Gilmour is great at composing short, melancholic solos.  He is brilliant in that box.  But it's also not a particularly big box. Even within a prog rock context, he gets overrated a lot.  Hackett can do all that Gilmour does and much more.  Likewise Latimer.  If the point is that Gilmour's contributions made Floyd outstanding above all, I would whole heartedly agree because musically it's the Gilmour leads that make most Floyd songs interesting (except in their experimental/psychedelic phase) and they would be fairly generic classic rock fare without him.  But I said that already - without Gilmour, Waters' unmelodic talk-ranting becomes very cringey.  Waters has a lot of vision to come up with great concepts but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of great licks, he isn't all that he thinks himself to be.

About Hackett being able to do everything Gilmour can do, I really really doubt it (though I do am sure that Hackett can do a lot that Gilmour can't)... before, I might have agreed with you, but not anymore, for I have just heard the new cover album Still wish you were Here, in which Hackett plays the guitars on Shine on you Crazy Diamond, and he just wasn't able to get it right (not as far as what I love about Gilmour, anyway); yeah, sure, he played all the notes all right... and perhaps with a few extra notes added, but it really sounded souless, rushed, or whatever... I really thought Hackett could have done better with Gilmour's parts (perhaps it's Latimer whom could give it a try).

^ OK, perhaps I was harsh at describing it harsh, and perhaps I'll be needing to hear this new version a few more times. Bit it certainly doesn't sound as beautiful to my ears... adding lots of stuff that wasn't there originally doesn't necessarily make it better. And about Gilmour surely not being able to play many things from Hackett, I myself said so on my post you are quoting. I was mentioning this version of a Gilmour song played by Hackett not to make less of Hackett, but because you were saying how Hackett can do all that Gilmour does and more... and I'm just saying how he couldn't... in a way... sure, he can play all the notes (something Gilmour surely would have trouble, or just couldn't do, with Hackett's songs), but for me, he couldn't make it sound quiet the same, he couldn't achieve the same beauty... or not the same kind of beauty, I mean, once again, he can do so very beautiful stuff of his own. But in the end, it's not a matter of one being better than the other, it's just that they are both able to do different kind of things, and in a different way, and both can achieve beauty to thoroughly enjoy, and both might have trouble playing what the other can. Just as with Dick Parry and Mel Collins... there is also the thing about Mel Collins playing Wright's parts, which in theory I might have liked, but I have trouble finding the melodies I love so much within his playing (actually, perhaps Latimer might have been the right choice to attempt this cover, both for the guitars and for the flutes playing Wright's parts).

Something remiss in these Gilmour topic posts is his incredible sense of melodicism. He is quite unique in this group of guitarists in that regard, imho.

rogerthat wrote: SteveG wrote: Something remiss in these Gilmour topic posts is his incredible sense of melodicism. He is quite unique in this group of guitarists in that regard, imho. I don't really find him any more melodic than Hackett, Latimer or Rothery.  Maybe compared to classic/hard rock guitarists.

I do and find that the others are pale imitations in that regard.

Latimer has a beautiful tone, he's the nearest comparable to Gilmour in my opinion.

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Latimer has a beautiful tone, he's the nearest comparable to Gilmour in my opinion.

No argument here. And Rothery is brilliant in Brave songs as well. But they are not as consistent as Gilmour, imo. And he has better riffs too. Like Shine On.

Edited by SteveG - June 15 2021 at 06:15