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Artists considered prog on here but not elsewhere
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 29478 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2021 at 01:05
To me the site crossed a line when Queen where included (regardless of them being put in the greyed out area or not) . Prog rock was clearly a mesh of jazz , rock and classical ideas developed by Keith Emerson , Bob Fripp and a bunch of other musicians around 1967-1970. After a time it became a cliche but people still like the sound and the style and look for it in modern bands. 
Progressive music is a whole different thing. The site has never decided whether its a homage to prog, a progressive music site or just a place to discuss a bunch of bands we like. I think its gone more to the latter as its expanded. I suppose I'm okay with that.
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Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:


Post rock here features as a subgenre, but I don't think most people consider it so. I love Sigur Ros and GY!BE among others, but they're usually considered simply post rock. Not prog. Different is the case of, say, canterbury which is definitely a sub-genre or prog, or zehul too, or krautrock. So Caravan, Soft Machine, Magma, Neu, Can, Faust, etc. Most would agree they're prog bands. Post rock I think most people consider it a genre in its own right, in fact I was surprised when I saw it in the website first LOL. Same with the black metal/post metal stuff like Agalloch. I don't mind these bands being here, I just find it odd that these bands are not only in the website, but they're also listed as prog bands, while many suggestions of bands to be included not even as prog, but as prog-related are constantly denied. I mean bands like Boston or Dire Straits for instance. I think Smashing Pumpkins and Wire were suggested too more than once. It seems that sometimes they're very liberal in the definition of prog and sometimes they're very strict in what even considers "prog-related", NOT even prog.

When post rock came up, I already was a prog fan. Post rock was a big discovery for me, love much of it and still can't get enough. When I joined PA, I didn't expect to find post rock here, insofar you are right. However, I was delighted to learn it's here. The musical connections, particularly if you look at subgenres such as Kraut and psychedelic, are obvious, and for me it's a perfect match. Obviously that shouldn't stop anyone to consider it a genre on its own, no contradiction there (and by the way, there's much post rock that is not here, too). I like PA being a broad umbrella, and while I expressed surprise about the presence of NIN and Steely Dan, I have no complaints against them being here. My far bigger complaint is that Irmin Schmidt is not here, and given that PA is such a  broad umbrella otherwise, that's really quite outrageous. (Did I already mention that? LOL)
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Rush..........Tongue

Don't you mean the Beatles? Wink
We all know that already.....Approve
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Too many to name....I don't consider most ,if not all, of the prog related artists to be prog rock and imho they are just rock bands. I don't care that they are here but I have never thought they were really 'progressive' per se. That includes some 'proto prog' bands.

BTW,,,one wonders how many times this same question will be asked on PA in different ways....?
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Points: 43474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 07:28
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I'm currently in the middle of adding Van Morrison to my fourth prog channel, so I can hardly complain about any non-prog artists who don't belong on ProgArchives. Smile


If the music is good, does it really matter how we classify it?
No, not really. I have Deacon Blue and Prefab Sprout lined up for Prog Britannia 5, simply because they both make good music. Smile
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:


I'm 29 and I don't see those bands as prog, NiN is industrial rock and Sigur Ros post rock. You can ask fans of those bands and they might not be into prog at all. And they will hardly mention prog if you ask the genre of music they make. I think stuff like Supertramp, Moody Blues, Radiohead, early Queen, etc, might be debated or fall into "crossover" prog, but those artists are simply a different genre.

 

NIN has gone beyond industrial, they did ambient/electronic, atmospheric music, I don't mind them being here on PA.

As for Sigur Ros, post rock is a prog subgenre, isn't it? No problem for them being on PA or being considered a prog band. What am I missing here? Confused



Post rock here features as a subgenre, but I don't think most people consider it so. I love Sigur Ros and GY!BE among others, but they're usually considered simply post rock. Not prog. Different is the case of, say, canterbury which is definitely a sub-genre or prog, or zehul too, or krautrock. So Caravan, Soft Machine, Magma, Neu, Can, Faust, etc. Most would agree they're prog bands. Post rock I think most people consider it a genre in its own right, in fact I was surprised when I saw it in the website first LOL. Same with the black metal/post metal stuff like Agalloch. I don't mind these bands being here, I just find it odd that these bands are not only in the website, but they're also listed as prog bands, while many suggestions of bands to be included not even as prog, but as prog-related are constantly denied. I mean bands like Boston or Dire Straits for instance. I think Smashing Pumpkins and Wire were suggested too more than once. It seems that sometimes they're very liberal in the definition of prog and sometimes they're very strict in what even considers "prog-related", NOT even prog.
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To the off-shoot guys: I made a new thread about music collecting
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126620&PID=5905881#5905881
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Points: 724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 07:05
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

^ The perils of being a collector (as opposed to a fan) eh?

Yes that's the problem with collecting....you never stop!


Exactly, once the collecting bug bites you just want more and more, almost like an addiction.  What always intrigues me about collecting any artist is rooting out the 'rarities' which is not so difficult these days with such stuff often being thrown in as extras on modern CD reissues and compilations.

Yeah... but it's what you end up doing.  Why buy a box set when you have all the albums...but you buy it because of the previously unreleased otherwise you feel you are incomplete.  Crazy really right :)


The oldest trick in the book - get your devoted fans to purchase stuff they already own by chucking in a few rarities... or am I just being cynical?

No, you nailed it.
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Progishness View Drop Down
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Points: 2565 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progishness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 06:45
Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

^ The perils of being a collector (as opposed to a fan) eh?

Yes that's the problem with collecting....you never stop!


Exactly, once the collecting bug bites you just want more and more, almost like an addiction.  What always intrigues me about collecting any artist is rooting out the 'rarities' which is not so difficult these days with such stuff often being thrown in as extras on modern CD reissues and compilations.

Yeah... but it's what you end up doing.  Why buy a box set when you have all the albums...but you buy it because of the previously unreleased otherwise you feel you are incomplete.  Crazy really right :)


The oldest trick in the book - get your devoted fans to purchase stuff they already own by chucking in a few rarities... or am I just being cynical?
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
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Spaciousmind View Drop Down
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Points: 724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2021 at 06:30
Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

^ The perils of being a collector (as opposed to a fan) eh?

Yes that's the problem with collecting....you never stop!


Exactly, once the collecting bug bites you just want more and more, almost like an addiction.  What always intrigues me about collecting any artist is rooting out the 'rarities' which is not so difficult these days with such stuff often being thrown in as extras on modern CD reissues and compilations.

Yeah... but it's what you end up doing.  Why buy a box set when you have all the albums...but you buy it because of the previously unreleased otherwise you feel you are incomplete.  Crazy really right :)
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Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

^ The perils of being a collector (as opposed to a fan) eh?

Yes that's the problem with collecting....you never stop!


Exactly, once the collecting bug bites you just want more and more, almost like an addiction.  What always intrigues me about collecting any artist is rooting out the 'rarities' which is not so difficult these days with such stuff often being thrown in as extras on modern CD reissues and compilations.
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
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I am still mustering up the courage to alphabetise my collection. I figure it’ll take a weekend...and well I’ve had order before...until it wasn’t order and stuff just managed to mingle with each other and taking vacations in altogether different parts of the collection. Kendrick Lamar fx is currently hanging out between Talking Heads and Embryo

Edited by Guldbamsen - June 08 2021 at 06:19
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Spaciousmind View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

^ The perils of being a collector (as opposed to a fan) eh?

Yes that's the problem with collecting....you never stop!
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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I have never in my life considered ordering my cds in any way other than alphabetically. It still amazes me that people are able to do order their collection in any other way. I would never be able to find anything!  😄



The same with my CD collection - alphabetical by artist, and then albums ordered *chronologically for each artist.

*sticking to original release dates, regardless of whether it is a reissue.

We sort alphabetically within the artists too.


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Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

A couple of years ago I would have been all over this thread...but man I’m tired of filosofying over stickers. Just looking at this thread makes me want to take a nap
My apologies to anyone out there who feels the stickers are integral to their world view and order of the very same.

Yes, but, language is one of my favorite tools to prove that I am human!Embarrassed At least, I think I'm human. Let me see, I'll have to consult my Descartes... 
Oops! Perhaps that's too big of a leap/extrapolation! 
...If I'm not human, then what am I? And why do have this capacity to express myself using linguistics and vocabularies?
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Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

All that matters is that it is good music.


Amen, sister!

well, obviously... LOL
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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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You should have a look at our library; the books in it are not sorted at all. The reason is that if we arranged them in some order we would soon have to start to move thousands of books around on the shelves because they would be filled. So we just buy new shelves whenever necessary.


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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

All that matters is that it is good music.


Amen, sister!
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

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Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ The only Miles Davis album I take issue with in the top 100 is Kind of Blue.  This is an issue with our complete discography policy as well that we label acts not albums.  I think Miles Davis better suited to our JRF category than Prog Related for the late 60s through mid-70s period that he was included in PA for.  Herbie Hancock has a similar case.  

It's the same case with Chick, yet he remains absent. If we get stingy about jazz artists that only dabbled in fusion for a brief period in the 70s, then realistically, many of these artists should be gone (or relegated to Related if the standards for that grouping were to be expanded to include jazz musicians). And in Chick's case, he remained in a "progressive" realm (in the context of jazz AND jazz fusion) for a much larger portion of his discography than the aforementioned two giants. That being said, I realize this involves difficult discussions and debates, so I'm not really complaining. Just observing.

EXCELLENT point!
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^ The perils of being a collector (as opposed to a fan) eh?
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
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