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Vangelis: Prog-Related or Progressive Electronic

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Steve Wyzard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vangelis: Prog-Related or Progressive Electronic
    Posted: May 25 2021 at 17:38
I have no intention of being argumentative, and have no idea if this has ever come up before, but I really must ask:

Why is VANGELIS categorized as Prog-Related (Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, et al) rather than Progressive Electronic (Tangerine Dream et al)?

Just interested in the thinking behind this. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 17:53
Yeah it's come up a number of times, not Berlin school and the ilk and maybe has not generally been thought of as experimentsl or Kosmische enough. He's not as out there as Tangerine Dream on Zeit and the like usually, but then one could say neither is TD.

The Dragon and Hypothesis are awesome



Though that one is more Krautrocky.

Edited by Logan - May 25 2021 at 17:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TCat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 18:00
There are a few other albums that could be considered experimental like Beaubourg and Invisible Connections, but overall, I think his output seemed to be more accessible.  I would be one of the people that would be for making him Progressive Electronic, but since I'm a fan, I might be a bit biased.  Like Logan says, he doesn't follow the Electronic schools of style, so that's probably the main reason for the distinction.  

Edited by TCat - May 25 2021 at 18:00

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verslibre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 19:33
Vangelis has recorded psych, symph, EM (ambient and prog), film score and modern classical.

Sounds "Eclectic" enough to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 19:42
And this, ladies and gentleman, is why we have 23 sub-genres listed on the home page. Wink
Vangelis is awesome. Prog related because of his work with Aphrodite's Child and Jon Anderson I would think.
Thankfully he made the cut where Walter/Wendy Carlos and Tomita haven't. A cryin' shame that.

Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 19:55
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Why is VANGELIS categorized as Prog-Related (Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, et al) rather than Progressive Electronic (Tangerine Dream et al)?

While Vangelis' music is keyboard-centric, not all of it is entirely electronic and/or synth-based. He plays grand piano, bass, and drums (the real kind) on albums like Albedo 0.39 (my personal favorite) and Direct. He's also credited with "sundry instruments" on Heaven and Hell. He collaborated with Irene Pappas to record Odes and added his voice (by way of vocoder) to "Ballad" on Spiral.

Hypothesis and The Dragon were unauthorized releases of full band studio jams circa the early '70s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2021 at 20:18
^ I know with The Dragon and Hypothesis (why I didn't feel bad about posting the whole album), but I guess I should have said so, just thought Steve might not have heard it. The Dragon is great, though, I think. It was recorded in 1971, as I recall, and came soon after his work in Aphrodite's Child. I once suggested Crossover since it's not all electronic, and that he does do mainstream stuff. I like his post 70s music, but it is in the 70s where he does make the most obviously, that I am aware of, prog music (as is common with many artists). I love Earth, which can be called progressive rock and acid folk. In terms of progressive electronic, I tend to think of Albedo 0.39, Spiral and Heaven and Hell. Much as people think the New Age label is useless or a misnomer (Dean?), after that he does get classified more as New Age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 01:12
I think this thread has got all the facts right. He's done a mixture of stuff over the years so not easy to classify him. Logan is bang on with the albums that make him essential to the prog scene imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 11:39
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ I know with The Dragon and Hypothesis (why I didn't feel bad about posting the whole album), but I guess I should have said so, just thought Steve might not have heard it. The Dragon is great, though, I think. It was recorded in 1971, as I recall, and came soon after his work in Aphrodite's Child.

I like them, too. I just remembered they were issued under Vangelis' name, and he did sue. LOL IIRC, they were recorded in London not long after Aphrodite's Child had issued 666.

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I once suggested Crossover since it's not all electronic, and that he does do mainstream stuff. I like his post 70s music, but it is in the 70s where he does make the most obviously, that I am aware of, prog music (as is common with many artists).

Idea! PA can cheat and use Vangelis for Progressive Electronic for the albums starting with Heaven and Hell, and his actual name, Vangelis (Evangelos) Papathanassiou, for another category (Crossover?) for his albums like Sex Power (early psych film score), Earth, L'Apocalypse Des Animaux (an incredible ambient film score, I love this record!) Odes (with Irene Pappas), See You Later (one of his "black sheep" albums) and even Hypothesis and The Dragon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 11:52
Originally posted by TCat TCat wrote:

...  Like Logan says, he doesn't follow the Electronic schools of style, so that's probably the main reason for the distinction.  

Hi,

In an interview that was sent out to FM stations about the time of "Heaven and Hell" ... he specified that his music came from his home and not necessarily studies. He says (I have to listen to it again, can't even paraphrase it now!) ... that he learned music at home, and that he follows his own instincts, not any specific kind of music, although he was in a rock/pop band (learning days) and then added some more to at least one other (Socrates) ... before going completely alone, and creating his own "movie music" which some of his early albums were from it seems like.

It was also at home that he "discovered" sounds that have added to his music and he even says that at dinner they used to hit the glasses with this or that for attention, and then various other sounds, which he apparently has extended to make different synthesizer sounds from everyone else ... he even says that every single one of his albums has t-spoons on it ... but for you and I to find them? .... 

Now you know why we can't even define the turkey ... but he is fantastic and will be remembered as one great and special composer ... complete with an OSCAR in his closet!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 11:59
Oh, I'd definitely say Vangelis is Progressive Electronic. Heaven and Hell would have to be moved to convince me otherwise. That's my Hypothesis anyway. See You Later. Wink

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - May 26 2021 at 12:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 12:00
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

It was also at home that he "discovered" sounds that have added to his music and he even says that at dinner they used to hit the glasses with this or that for attention, and then various other sounds, which he apparently has extended to make different synthesizer sounds from everyone else ... he even says that every single one of his albums has t-spoons on it ... but for you and I to find them? ....

As credited on HaH, "sundry instruments." Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 12:03
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Oh, I'd definitely say Vangelis is Progressive Electronic. Heaven and Hell would have to be moved to convince me otherwise. That's my Hypothesis anyway. See You Later. Wink

Paul, have you heard Soil Festivities (1984)? It's wonderful. His 1990 album The City is another cool ambient record that rarely gets a mention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 12:08
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Oh, I'd definitely say Vangelis is Progressive Electronic. Heaven and Hell would have to be moved to convince me otherwise. That's my Hypothesis anyway. See You Later. Wink

Paul, have you heard Soil Festivities (1984)? It's wonderful. His 1990 album The City is another cool ambient record that rarely gets a mention.
No, I haven't heard Soil Festivities  yet. I'll have to have a dig around for that one the next time I'm in The City. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 12:13
Keep your trip simple and Direct. Don't forget to wear your Mask. Don't force any Invisible Connections with strangers. If you hear Voices you don't recognize, go the other way! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 12:28
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Keep your trip simple and Direct. Don't forget to wear your Mask. Don't force any Invisible Connections with strangers. If you hear Voices you don't recognize, go the other way! LOL

Thanks for the advice. If I start hearing Voices, then I know I'll be headed on a downward SpiralSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 13:15
If that happens, it's time to come back down to Earth. You know, that place somewhere between Heaven and HellLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 16:04
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Oh, I'd definitely say Vangelis is Progressive Electronic. Heaven and Hell would have to be moved to convince me otherwise. That's my Hypothesis anyway. See You Later. Wink

Paul, have you heard Soil Festivities (1984)? It's wonderful. His 1990 album The City is another cool ambient record that rarely gets a mention.

The City is my favorite Vangelis album: a true masterpiece!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 26 2021 at 18:47
I would think progressive electronic. I don't see how he would fit anywhere else but maybe he would. Mike Oldfield on the other hand would not fit but Vangelis would imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2021 at 05:39
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

I have no intention of being argumentative


Oh yeah that ol' chestnut: some of my best friends are hermits etcWink

Vangelis should certainly be on PA no question but cut to the chase: the repeated discussions about his omission from a 'fully fledged' Prog category seem to stem from a fan's perception that Prog Related is somehow a lesser sub genre cos it's coloured yellow on the front pageErmm. Please always remember that none of the categories are qualitative in any shape or form. I have two of his albums but like me, he needs to ditch the beard and put down the fork.


Edited by ExittheLemming - May 27 2021 at 05:45
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