What is happening in Jerusalem?

Gandhi managed to liberate India, the second largest country in population , by non-violent means . Mandela also . 

rogerthat wrote: tszirmay wrote: rogerthat wrote: tszirmay wrote: Where am I overreacting? You have not?  So what do you call "Perhaps the best solution for many would be for the "clueless" Israelis to move out en masse and leave permanently?"  Who actually asked for it in this here thread?  So don't make up stuff and then act innocent.  Especially if you are NOT a Jew, there is no need to feel so defensive about this topic that you start accusing us of asking Jews to leave Israel.  .  I am not defensive at all, my history professor first day university told me : "You research one side, you research the other and you stay Swiss , very, very neutral". I also don't get bullied much , so be nice. You think I get intimidated by slicing and dicing and taking sides, something you have the absolute right to do. But its just an opinion that you have. In fact many would like that bad solution , its in the charter of many groups in the armed resistance. You can ask Roger Waters and 100 million others. Why are you defensive? and who is US?  What bad solution again did I propose (au contraire, I said I don't see any realistic solution in today's scenario)?  Either admit that you confused my posts with someone else's or admit that you are just making up white lies now.  Why should I ask Roger Waters?  Who told you that I am an ideological fellow traveller of his?  Anyway, your resort to blatant polemic tells me everything I need to know.

Edited by tszirmay - May 20 2021 at 10:25

Thomas and Madan. I hear you both, bros. I know how Canadians can "challenge" to have the insight of things, from a peaceful land. I really admire people like Thomas, in this regard. They are "rare". I had the chance to have a Canadian co-worker friend. A heart of gold, angry towards his people. Always saying, "these people have no idea what freedom is!!!" She is Christian... She had extremely traumatic life experiences. But, she was a fighter for the goodness and peace... I, of course, don't know Thomas' life experiences. But, the challenges he put in front of him, I believe, are purely humanitarian.

I also understand Madan... Actually... He is a very cultured person. I can allege that his knowledge in such matters are outstanding, given his age. He tries to make sense of the "power hungry" tendency, in lots of countries, including mine. India, from a Turkish standpoint, seems like having an "extremely alien" culture. Madan, I daresay, is a rarity too.

Peace bros. 

As for the Israelis I became friends with... I can say, they are "too demanding". They have a clear perception, but they think that all their manners should be taken light-heartedly, purely because they have no evil intentions. I never felt hostility towards them, but it was really hard to keep a "calm" conversation with them. But if you show them some humanity, they can award you with unimaginable praises.

This is my humble take here...

Please... Let's try to understand each other...

Edited by Shadowyzard - May 20 2021 at 10:37

SteveG wrote: tszirmay wrote: SteveG wrote: tszirmay wrote: SteveG wrote: The problem with getting rid of fanatics is the fact that the state of Israel was partially created by Jews based on a type of religious fanaticism. To return God's people to the Holy Land. Sorry, but that bird has flown. Funny because the most fanatic religious Jews do not accept Zionism, it was actually the secular ones who pushed that agenda.  If you think that secular Jews, and only secular Jews, embraced Zionism, then I'm afraid that this conversation is at an end. Us, us, us, and them.....Herzl was not a religious Jew, certainly at odds with certain Jewish sects who view Israel as being only viable as a gift of God. They are in New York.  I find it funny when a moderate Swiss-educated person, who has a long history of non-bias needs to feel somehow defensive about anything. As I said before, I have visited that neck of the woods and seen the Gordian Knot up close and centre. I do not require being educated on the subject as I have my own , neutral, views that are mine and not a series of rants.    Yes, iforgot that you are an historian, which makes your skewed view of Zionism more troubing. It wasn't all about intellectual Jews from NY spouting their ideology. They did get the most press so perhaps that's why you only see Zionism as some purely non religious ideological doctrine.

Edited by tszirmay - May 20 2021 at 10:40

If only we had a cleric here that can cast the spell "Zone of Sweet Air"...

I'm a wizard, so not capable of that...

SteveG wrote: I have a better question for you. Are you a Jew like me?

Edited by tszirmay - May 20 2021 at 12:01

Glad to hear that! and, of course, I answered your question but mine remains unanswered. You are a master! 

Edited by tszirmay - May 20 2021 at 11:42

The Hamas Covenant or Hamas Charter, formally known in English as the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement, was originally issued on 18 August 1988 and outlines the founding identity, stand, and aims of Hamas (the Islamic Resistance Movement). A new charter was issued by Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal on 1 May 2017 in Doha.

The original Charter identified Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. It emphasizes the importance of jihad, stating in article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavours". The charter also states that Hamas is humanistic, and tolerant of other religions as long as they "stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region". The Charter adds that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion" of Islam. 

This is perhaps a slight problem, especially when you read all 35 articles of this charter.  

Edited by tszirmay - May 20 2021 at 13:48

Edited by jamesbaldwin - May 20 2021 at 14:02

As I said before, both parties are responsible for this eternal lunacy. No one's hands are clean. The Israelis won't budge and keep stubbornly adding settlements, and the Palestinians, egged on by their external handlers from other Muslim countries, call for Intifada (because, of course, all Arabs agree with obliterating Israel).