Are RUSH actually Prog? |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Guys RUSH are prog again today, it flipped. Rush +1 prog, market steady BUY RUSH, etc.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Have an even better example. Marillion. And yet, nobody even questions whether Marillion is prog because the similarities to Genesis are very apparent. But prog is not about one particular sound, never was.
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rogerthat
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But many of their songs do not use violin. So does that make them not prog? There's no flute in Dancing With The Moonlit Knight and Genesis never had violin. Does that mean Dancing With The Moonlit Knight is not prog? Is Heart Of The Sunrise not prog? Tarkus? You are going to protest that that is not your point. And I suggest you try to see my/our point. You are just making up rules based on what prog SOUNDED like in general in the 70s. But the same bands disobeyed such rules many times on a song by song basis. So why can a BAND as a whole not be prog simply because they don't incorporate flute or violin?
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verslibre
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LOTS of synth on the '80s albums — LOTS. Mellotron (M400, owned by Hugh Syme, played by Geddy) on "Tears" from 2112 and four songs on Snakes & Arrows. Violin (played by Ben Mink) on "Losing It" from Signals. Acoustic piano (played by Hugh Syme) on "Different Strings" from Permanent Waves. And you know what? A violin, oboe, cello or flute automatically make something "prog" about as much as a food mixer does. Just ask Rick Wakeman.
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verslibre
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KLOS (95.5 FM) did, too. KLOS aired Greg Stone's Stone Trek, all the way into the '90s, which was an hour of pure prog. That's where I first heard Camel! |
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Catcher10
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Growing up in Los Angeles area in the early 70s the FM station KMET 94.7 would play a lot of obscure hard rock and progressive rock and the DJs would use the term "progressive music" or "progressive rock". That is the station where I first heard Genesis, it was the Cinema Show from Seconds Out. Only played at night since it was a 11 minute song. I only heard/read the term "prog" maybe in the last 25yrs.
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Catcher10
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Deidre, he gone....again!
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chopper
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As far as I remember there was a term "progressive rock" in the 70s (when I was at school with a lot of people who liked Yes and Genesis etc) but I never heard it called "prog" till much later.
At time like these I normally refer to my trusty 1978 NME Encyclopedia of Rock, in which ELP and Yes are labelled "techno-rock" but there is no mention of "progressive rock" in the entries for them or KC or Genesis. In the entry for Tull it says they gained a devoted following on the "progressive rock" circuit alongside others such as Ten Years After, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd and The Nice, so the term existed in 1978 but not as we know it today.
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The Dark Elf
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It's rather like Johnny Winters' Progressive Blues Experiment (1968). Great album, but it's neither progressive nor very experimental.
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SteveG
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Un Amico
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If you are talking about UK the band, Eddie Jobson plays keyboards and violin.
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rogerthat
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Frenetic Zetetic
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This thread has been going on so long, RUSH is no longer prog and reverted to a shoe gaze band with progressive elements.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Catcher10
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Since you admit you don't know the whole Rush output you are not qualified to pass on the correct information to future listeners. And BTW, there is a violin on the 1982 Rush album Signals.
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rogerthat
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There is none in UK either. There's lots of synth but it clearly leans on the jazz/fusion side of things. Further, this website, like elsewhere in the progosphere, recognises progressive metal as a part of the larger prog rock universe. Prog metal again doesn't have wood wind or string instruments nor mellotron. So Rush fits in neatly in that basket. Rush is the bridge band between the old prog and the new prog. |
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Catcher10
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Nope.....you can't simply go by a rock magazine or a music critic who both usually have an agenda. Rush has been described as being hard rock, heavy metal, acid, progressive and prog rock......bands like them are able to cover many rock based genres. So how do you explain that EMI categorized DSOtM as Popular: Pop Groups? |
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jude111
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Ah, now I see where you're coming from. I agree, radio got really bad especially in the 80s, at least in the US. (I have the impression UK radio was much more interesting.) The point I was trying to make is that Rush emerged during this period, and they definitely benefited from this corporatization of the radio that you mention: "Radio consultants Kent Burkhart and Lee Abrams had a significant impact on AOR programming. Beginning in the mid-1970s they began contracting with what would become over 100 stations by the 1980s. Abrams had developed a format called SuperStars, pioneering it at WQDR, and had been very successful in delivering high ratings." Lee Abrams was a fan of Rush; thanks to him, they got national airplay across the US on AOR stations. He wrote about Rush: "I repect those guys. Been around forever and still crankin it out. They’re pretty normal guys too. Whatever “Wave” we go through…Rush will be there…delivering. Pink Floyd are kind of like that too, but more on a grandiose and global scale…of course Pink Floyd have their share of internal drama…they have musical stability at least. Pisses me off about Yes. They had it all during the early 70’s…but screwed it up in every imaginable way. Individually brilliant…they get on stage and they can still blow you away…but if they only had the stability and consitancy of Rush!" Straight from the horse's mouth so to speak: Rush aligned with Pink Floyd and Yes, and were crucial to AOR radio formatting along with said bands. If there was a genre they were thought to be a part of, I submit the said genre was "album oriented rock," which was created in part by prog bands (and a few others like Led Zeppelin, who also benefited greatly from American AOR radio stations - that's why they were far bigger in the US than the UK). Rush, Floyd, Yes, and Zeppelin weren't hit machines like Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Paul McCartney, or the Bee Gees. Their bread-and-butter was album sales based on radio programming at AOR stations, and their songs were all over AOR radio: Working Man, Fly by Night, Temples of Syrinx, Closer to the Heart, The Trees, Spirit of Radio, Freewill, Tom Sawyer, Limelight, A Passage to Bangkok, New World Man, Subdivisions...
Edited by jude111 - May 09 2021 at 22:45 |
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Un Amico
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 01 2021 Location: Tauranga, NZ Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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The classic Power-trio formation Guitar, Bass and Vocals, Drums seems to suggest Rush were/are a Hard Rock group with a penchant for long pieces of music. Mountain were similar, and Cream (live) as well as Mahogany Rush, also from Canada (I love them). There is not a violin or a flute anywhere, no cello or oboe, nothing. There is some synth here and there. I may be wrong here though because I do not know the whole Rush output. Does all of this really matter? Only as far as future listeners are concerned I guess. We need to make sure that what we pass on to them is the correct information. Most of us, we just enjoy the music. When I play a record, I don't think ' oh, I want to play some Prog now'...I just think 'I want to play In The Wake Of Poseidon' I have been thinking about it since this morning! That's it.
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Un Amico
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Brilliant. Some food for thought, folks...
Edited by Un Amico - May 09 2021 at 21:38 |
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The Dark Elf
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I never said that genres didn't exist prior to the 70s. Of course they did. I don't know how old you are, but I would suggest that the importance and marketing of compartmentalized genres and the hyper-compartmentalization of music occurred in the late 70s/early 80s due to consolidation of corporate record companies and the emasculation of FM radio to fit very rigid marketing demographics based on ad buys. If you listened to a FM rock station in the early 70s, you heard literally everything. It was radio without borders, so to speak, and often quite radical in airplay (you could hear the MC5, War, P-Funk, Gentle Giant, early Genesis, Iggy, Neil Young, Mott the Hoople, Stevie Wonder, T.Rex, Alice Cooper and Bowie all on one station, interspersed with the Led Zeppelins, Doors, Hendrixes, Stones and Beatles of the world). Hell, even AM radio would play at least the hits of bands like Deep Purple, Yes, Tull, The Allman Brothers and Uriah Heep. That really changed later, and drastically. AOR rock made way for corporatization. It came to a point that you could hear a deejay announce they were going to play a certain band next, and with the utmost certainty you could predict that it would be one of two or three songs played in endless rotation. Ah, the endless drone of Boston, Foreigner, Styx, Kansas, REO, Bad Company, Bob Seger and John Cougar Mellonhead in a monotonous loop! We had a radio station in Detroit that started in 1980 with the call letters WLLZ -- and the running joke was that it stood for Whole Lotta Led Zeppelin, and then other stations adopted "classic rock" or "new wave", etc. Every station became a stratified, stultified niche and MTV became its own niche. And creativity died.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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